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Missing Air France Jet over the Atlantic ...

Transport category aircraft don't go down because of a random fluke - likely something catastrophic happened or the crew flew it into the water...

The news is reporting "electrical failure" - in a jet like this with multiple redundant electrical systems and circuits...seems unlikely.
 
ChuckMK23 said:
Transport category aircraft don't go down because of a random fluke - likely something catastrophic happened or the crew flew it into the water...

The news is reporting "electrical failure" - in a jet like this with multiple redundant electrical systems and circuits...seems unlikely.
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Seems unlikely a 747 would just randomly blow up off the coast of New York but that's happened also. Stranger things in aviation have happened.
 
Sad news... Weird thing is my dad just told me a couple days ago about the CO of his squadron in Okinawa back during Vietnam flew through a storm and never came out the other side.
 
Question for the airline pilots here; why not divert around? Or is the 330 equipped to handle flying through pretty severe storms?
 
insanebikerboy said:
Question for the airline pilots here; why not divert around? Or is the 330 equipped to handle flying through pretty severe storms?
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Always go around or over -- if you can .... I always liked my options out over the ocean in preference to the heartland of the U.S.

Sometimes, however -- when faced w/ a huge system/line that stretches for 100's of miles and is too high to 'top' -- the only way is to go through it -- pick your way through the 'forest' w/ radar, skill, experience, training, luck and the grace of God ... :)


photo by A4sForever
 
A4sForever said:
Always go around or over -- if you can .... I always liked my options out over the ocean in preference to the heartland of the U.S.

Sometimes, however -- when faced w/ a huge system/line that stretches for 100's of miles and is too high to 'top' -- the only way is to go through it -- pick your way through the 'forest' w/ radar, skill, experience, training, luck and the grace of God ... :)
photo by A4sForever
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That's kinda what I was thinking. With the weather radar and capabilities of those airliners, I figured they'd be able to do some sort of threading a needle, so to speak.
 
insanebikerboy said:
That's kinda what I was thinking. With the weather radar and capabilities of those airliners, I figured they'd be able to do some sort of threading a needle, so to speak.
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Yeah ... you can do it ... lots of things to take into account -- winds aloft, how high are the cells, what's the 'top' doing, how far away they are, are they 'building' or relatively 'dormant' .... it's tougher @ night, but w/ practice & experience, you become quite good at it.

You just wanna' make sure you don't 'push it', just 'cause you're "good" at it ... :)

Ironically, the 'older' monochrome radar screens were 'better' at detecting WX and cells -- usually more powerful -- than some of the newer, 'better', gee-whiz, 'color' sets ... at least that was my experience in several types of aircraft.
 
A4sForever said:
You just wanna' make sure you don't 'push it', just 'cause you're "good" at it ... :)
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This might better belong in "Stupid Questions About Aviation" thread, but was there ever a situation when you were transoceanic that you encountered a line of storms thick enough that you RTB'd (or diverted) rather than thread your way through? I would think there'd be a lot of pressure on captains to keep to schedules, but you obviously also don't want to put the passengers or aircraft at risk.

Also - are the "tropics the tropics", or do convective systems tend to be worse off of SA/Africa than in the South Pacific?
 
A4sForever said:
Sometimes, however -- when faced w/ a huge system/line that stretches for 100's of miles and is too high to 'top' -- the only way is to go through it -- pick your way through the 'forest' w/ radar, skill, experience, training, luck and the grace of God ... :)
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Or, if you are in a prop plane, go under or through with no chance of going over or around. :eek: At night, over the ocean, and the only airfield you can make with the gas available is through an afternoon line of boomers that built up that afternoon over the pacific. Well, at least the "light show" of St. Elmos fire, lightning static discharge from the props and arcing discharges up the windscreen kept us entertained if the turbulence and howl of the props getting driven off speed hitting different air pockets... :) Shit hot radar operators (Sensor threes alot better than pickle thinks he is, jk) have definitely helped more than one orion snake through convective activity.
 
Three rules of Thunderstorm: Avoid, Avoid, Avoid.

Having flown through two nasty cells in my career, I would never do it again even if you paid me real good money. We probably bordered on the upper edge of severe turbulence and we were tossed every which way but loose, lost comms, iced up and couldn't hold altitude at all. When we literally fell out of the bottom of the cloud, we looked up and saw it was the nasty kind with smooth dark grey bumps and looked boiling mad from below it. :eek:

2249278566_bc780812cb.jpg


Most civilians don't really understand the actual levels of turbulence. They think light chop is bad...

Aircraft turbulence?Irregular motion of an aircraft in flight, especially when characterized by rapid up-and-down motion, caused by a rapid variation of atmospheric wind velocities.

This can occur in cloudy areas (particularly towering cumulus and lenticular clouds) and in clear air. Turbulence is the leading cause of nonfatal passenger and flight attendant injuries. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) classifies aircraft turbulence as follows:


  • Light: Causes slight, erratic changes in altitude and/or attitude, and rhythmic bumpiness as occupants feel a slight strain against seat belts.
  • Moderate: Similar to light, but of greater intensity, with rapid bumps or jolts, and occupants feel a slight strain against seat belts.
  • Severe: Turbulence that causes large, abrupt changes in altitude and attitude, and large variations in airspeed, with the aircraft temporarily out of control. Occupants are forced violently against their seat belts and objects are tossed about, with food service and walking impossible.
  • Extreme: The aircraft is tossed about so violently that it is practically impossible to control, and structural damage may occur.
 
FlyinSpy said:
Also - are the "tropics the tropics", or do convective systems tend to be worse off of SA/Africa than in the South Pacific?
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Just like A4s said, the horizon to horizon ones that develop in the late evening in the south pacific can be some of the nastiest storms. I would rather have some typhoon activity that I can plan around. More than once I have flown around the outskirts of those to get where we needed to go.

Middle East, some truly nasty embedded systems coming into the winter months over afghanistan, compounded with some 175 knot plus winds and heavy turbulence. Yeah! SET V!!!
 
FlyinSpy said:
This might better belong in "Stupid Questions About Aviation" thread, but was there ever a situation when you were transoceanic that you encountered a line of storms thick enough that you RTB'd (or diverted) rather than thread your way through? .....
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Nope ... 25 TRANSPAC years and beaucoup hours doing same ... once I 'committed' I made it, as far as WX related questions go. Mebbe I was lucky ...

And not just 'me' ... but also the guys I flew w/ when I was a junior pilot. Not a 'macho' thing; not at all ... just an S&K (skill & experience) issue ... :)

BUT: for the sake of discussion -- I 'refused' to launch from Tokyo-SEL once w/ NRT dispatch 'insisting' I do so -- until they gave me enough fuel to go over to SEL and take a look-see ... shoot an approach ... and RTB to NRT (Tokyo). SEL had been down for 2-3 days (WOXOF) and the Company wanted me to use Cheju (Jeju-do) Island as a WX divert (just barely forecast above alternate min's) .... really nice, as I'd never been there, nor had any of our airplanes -- ever (!!) -- at least not since MAC props during the Korean War. :)

Once they loaded us to the fuel specs I demanded ... we went over, 'took a look-see' ... held until about 30 minutes prior to fuel-BINGO back to NRT ... ATC said the WX came up a scosh ... so we shot the first approach into Incheon in 2-3 days .. to rock-bottom minimums ... and landed.

Hero's .... :):sleep_125 .... we saved the day .... we did the 'right' thing. :):sleep_125

Did I get any 'blow-back' from the Co. for giving Dispatch shit??? No ... because we did the right thing (and got the job done).

Another time, I was the first airplane into Guam for 2-3 days 'cause of Typhoon Pongsona ... however, in retrospect, I should never have launched from Tokyo, given what we 'knew' and what was forecast. I knew we were 'pressing it', even though the Typhoon was forecast to be moving on .... but I was a 'good sailor', the field was opening (or so the Co. WX-Dispatch propaganda said), we wanted to do the 'job', and we got the job done. No BINGOs available (Saipan was almost as bad) ... ATC & ATIS were totally screwed up and I had to shoot an ADF (all that was working @ Agana) while looking out the side window because of quartering tailwinds to what turned out to be the wrong runway @ GUM as per directions from ATIS, ATC, and Tower. I WAVEd-OFF as I couldn't keep it aligned w/ the runway @ 100-200' AGL ... TOLD them what we were going to do ... and we did a semi-visual teardrop and came back around over Nimitz hill (where KAL planted it some years prior) in/out of the CLAG and landed ... firmly.

One of our mechanics was watching our GO-AROUND evolution from the ramp and said the back 1/2 of the airplane 'disappeared' in the roostertail when I went into reverse thrust upon landing ... :eek::)

In retrospect -- mebbe I should have stayed in bed in NRT that day.

Lesson: IF you ALWAYS do the 'right thing' when you're flyin' and/or jumping through 'technical' and/or WX-related hoops ... if you do what's 'right' and what YOU know ... it WILL work out in the end.
 
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