NSS Facts

[wlawr005]

-The NSS is currently comparing students from a new, more-or-less experimental program that uses an airplane that flies 300+ KIAS to a well-established program (with plenty of solid gouge out there) that uses an airplane that flies 180KIAS with it fire-walled. One can definitely argue that the slower you go, the more time you have and, therefore, the easier things are. One can also argue that the T6B will prepare studs much better for jet advanced than a T34 would.

I don't know where you are in the program, but if you're doing 3 bills in the T-6 you're probably fucking something up. The only time I go faster than 200 KIAS is on course rules.

However, we DO get to wear a g-suit...so yes, the training MUST be geared towards making jet dudes.

I've heard (from many sources, including my onwing) that the T-6 is much easier to fly in some respects, harder in others. I don't think it really matters at this stage in the game whether we fly the T-6 or the Sopwith Camel, my helmet stays on fire dude.

 

[scoober78]

I don't think it really matters at this stage in the game whether we fly the T-6 or the Sopwith Camel, my helmet stays on fire dude.

Nice!

 

[eas7888]

I don't think it really matters at this stage in the game whether we fly the T-6 or the Sopwith Camel, my helmet stays on fire dude.

Agreed

 

[jtmedli]

I don't know where you are in the program, but if you're doing 3 bills in the T-6 you're probably fucking something up. The only time I go faster than 200 KIAS is on course rules.

However, we DO get to wear a g-suit...so yes, the training MUST be geared towards making jet dudes.

I've heard (from many sources, including my onwing) that the T-6 is much easier to fly in some respects, harder in others. I don't think it really matters at this stage in the game whether we fly the T-6 or the Sopwith Camel, my helmet stays on fire dude.

I'm done with it. Are you still in contacts or what? I got that thing up to 240+ every time I flew it after my C4390 (including RIs and most of forms).

The reason people argue that it's a more jet-geared trainer is because you wear a g-suit, 02 mask (at all times), and all the other jet gear along with the glass cockpit, increased speeds, HUD, and control setup. Not to mention that it's a well known fact that the primary training is that of a "single-seat mentality". When/if you go fly P3s or Helos you'll understand how little primary stresses CRM and how much of it they expect to do all on your own vice a crew environment. Not to mention the obvious fact that the T6B is simply a cleaned-up, de-rated engine version of the AT6B (attack aircraft) which is designed to be flown by........you guessed it.....jet dudes. So don't sit around drinking the kool-aid. The reason for the comparison and similarities are obvious.

The only thing that I've ever heard about the T6 being 'easier' is that you have the glass/FMS cockpit and displays which make RIs and general NAV stuff a little simpler which doesn't matter because for half of RIs the IPs force you to "fly the needles" anyways so the FMS is basically a digital paper-weight at that point. Besides, the point I was trying to make was that comparing the NSS of a T6 stud to that of a T34 stud is never going to be an "all else equal" situation just because the two programs are NOT the same nor was I trying to make this into a T6 vs T34 (or sopwith camel for that matter) dick-measuring thread. I was simply making the point that trying to make sense of the NSS is futile. The best you can hope for is to understand the CTS and understand what is expected of you because I can guarantee you that no one in VT2/3/6 can bust out a calculator and calculate your NSS for you with any mathematical, reasonable explanation of how they got the number.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Just for posterity sake, CRM is not just a multi-piloted aircraft thing.

 

[Gatordev]

Not to mention the obvious fact that the T6B is simply a cleaned-up, de-rated engine version of the AT6B (attack aircraft) which is designed to be flown by........you guessed it.....jet dudes.

Actually, the AT-6B is an over-rated, souped up version of the T-6A, which is one major reason why it took so long for the T-6B to actually be available for its primary purpose (training studs). But for the most part, the rest of your post is on track, though I wouldn't say Primary doesn't teach CRM, just a different kind of CRM, as MIDNJAC is alluding to.

 

[wlawr005]

I'm done with it. Are you still in contacts or what? I got that thing up to 240+ every time I flew it after my C4390 (including RIs and most of forms).

The reason people argue that it's a more jet-geared trainer is because you wear a g-suit, 02 mask (at all times), and all the other jet gear along with the glass cockpit, increased speeds, HUD, and control setup. Not to mention that it's a well known fact that the primary training is that of a "single-seat mentality". When/if you go fly P3s or Helos you'll understand how little primary stresses CRM and how much of it they expect to do all on your own vice a crew environment. Not to mention the obvious fact that the T6B is simply a cleaned-up, de-rated engine version of the AT6B (attack aircraft) which is designed to be flown by........you guessed it.....jet dudes. So don't sit around drinking the kool-aid. The reason for the comparison and similarities are obvious.

The only thing that I've ever heard about the T6 being 'easier' is that you have the glass/FMS cockpit and displays which make RIs and general NAV stuff a little simpler which doesn't matter because for half of RIs the IPs force you to "fly the needles" anyways so the FMS is basically a digital paper-weight at that point. Besides, the point I was trying to make was that comparing the NSS of a T6 stud to that of a T34 stud is never going to be an "all else equal" situation just because the two programs are NOT the same nor was I trying to make this into a T6 vs T34 (or sopwith camel for that matter) dick-measuring thread. I was simply making the point that trying to make sense of the NSS is futile. The best you can hope for is to understand the CTS and understand what is expected of you because I can guarantee you that no one in VT2/3/6 can bust out a calculator and calculate your NSS for you with any mathematical, reasonable explanation of how they got the number.

Hey man, I learned all about CRM when I was facilitating it as an ANI. Just because YOU don't understand NSS doesn't mean that other people don't/can't/shouldn't.

You seem like you get spooled up pretty easy dude. Not a trait I would expect from someone so used to clicking around at 240+...take it easy man.

 

[EM1toNFO]

Well, I have no clue what my NSS is, nor to I care to find out. I'll find out about 2 weeks when I graduate. until then, it's a nice x-country to KSDL (Scottsdale, AZ) this weekend. Over here in 10, there are a lot of students wanting to know what their NSS is, but most of us just compare our cumulative average to each other that will be completing the same week. Then we talk about what everyone wants and where we each fall out in a stack. Of course this is only during "standby" ops, waiting and wishing we we're all flying.

 

[C420sailor]

Holy sweet Jesus. In Primary Advanced the FRS Naval Aviation you should just focus on sucking less, one flight at a time, without killing yourself and/or your IP. If you're really freaking out about your NSS, ask STUCON.

And to be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter anyway. Everyone knows that jet slots are full for the rest of the fiscal year.

 

[jtmedli]

Actually, the AT-6B is an over-rated, souped up version of the T-6A, which is one major reason why it took so long for the T-6B to actually be available for its primary purpose (training studs). But for the most part, the rest of your post is on track, though I wouldn't say Primary doesn't teach CRM, just a different kind of CRM, as MIDNJAC is alluding to.

You're right. I should've phrased that a little differently. That's exactly what I was trying to get at with the whole "single-seat mentality" thing.

Hey man, I learned all about CRM when I was facilitating it as an ANI. Just because YOU don't understand NSS doesn't mean that other people don't/can't/shouldn't.

You seem like you get spooled up pretty easy dude. Not a trait I would expect from someone so used to clicking around at 240+...take it easy man.

Ok. I didn't say you didn't know about CRM. I said you hadn't seen how it is actively emphasized in Helo-land or P3-land vice the primary-land way of mentioning it as a 5 second briefing item. And the whole point of the 6 pages of this thread has been, essentially, not that I dont understand the NSS but that NO ONE understands it completely so just quit Nuking it and go have fun flying. For god sakes, go open 'er up and see what the T6 can do. It's a great airplane.

Spooled up? Neh...240? Not anymore! I do 100kts at 500' AGL while drinking the kool aid and getting my hover-on now.

 

[wlawr005]

You're right. I should've phrased that a little differently. That's exactly what I was trying to get at with the whole "single-seat mentality" thing.



Ok. I didn't say you didn't know about CRM. I said you hadn't seen how it is actively emphasized in Helo-land or P3-land vice the primary-land way of mentioning it as a 5 second briefing item. And the whole point of the 6 pages of this thread has been, essentially, not that I dont understand the NSS but that NO ONE understands it completely so just quit Nuking it and go have fun flying. For god sakes, go open 'er up and see what the T6 can do. It's a great airplane.

Spooled up? Neh...240? Not anymore! I do 100kts at 500' AGL while drinking the kool aid and getting my hover-on now.

Are you kidding me? Cheers brother, and fly safe.

 

[gotta_fly]

Will you guys get a room already?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[AGonxAV8R]

One day, someone IS going to dig into it and realize that we have probably fucked every SNA since NSS started, but at least we were all fucked equally...sometimes.

So if we all get f****ed equally as you put it, and have been going down this road, then why does it matter?

NSS works for all its intended purposes. Make sure you knowledge is where it needs to be (Excellent or 5) and make sure you can fly safely and you use your head. Put the aircraft where it needs to go and it all should work out well. Sometimes you get lucky or unlucky and get a On-wing that is not as generous, but most of the time, it is your own doing, not anyone else's.

 

[eas7888]

. . .comparing the NSS of a T6 stud to that of a T34 stud is never going to be an "all else equal" situation . . .

Just out of curiosity, since the T-6 students are only being compared to the other T-6 students (for calculation of NSS), and T-34 students are only being compared to other T-34 students. . .shouldn't the NSS be relatively equitable? I.E. If T-6 student X is in the top Y percent of his T-6 peers, his NSS will be Z . . .with absolutely no reference to the T-34 students?

 

[eas7888]

So if we all get f****ed equally as you put it, and have been going down this road, then why does it matter?

NSS works for all its intended purposes. Make sure you knowledge is where it needs to be (Excellent or 5) and make sure you can fly safely and you use your head. Put the aircraft where it needs to go and it all should work out well. Sometimes you get lucky or unlucky and get a On-wing that is not as generous, but most of the time, it is your own doing, not anyone else's.

I like to say "All turds eventually get flushed, some just take a little longer to sink to the bottom."