Is there a metric that goes with this? Based on what? I'm not in any position to disagree…just trying to understand what constitutes "10x better" this day in age.
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Australia requests authority to purchase 24 more Super Hornets
- Thread starter Fog
- Start date
Only to be exceeded when the S/E bubbas are told "The pattern is closed…we have a B-52 coming in on 7 engines…"You took that too seriously, was tongue in cheek... meant to be a Poseidon sequel to the Orion "dreaded 3-engine approach". Standard half century- old VF/VA/VFA v VP 'nose tweaking'!
* "24k derate take off"?, duh wha' dat?
BzB
Additionally, the P-3 has a VMCair issue when it is two engine. Namely, at our normal landing speeds, we are below our VMCair with anything approaching MIL power. In short, we do not have a two engine waveoff capability in close. We maintain 145 KIAS until "landing is assured" to preserve what little waveoff ability we have.
The above is all two engine out, symmetric stuff of course.
The above is all two engine out, symmetric stuff of course.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I'll let Kmac or Hoov speak to the COD's SERC, but I know the Hummer's would often be "not great" at MGTW, in hot ambient conditions.. Definitely sub 200fpm. Now once you've burned off fuel or it was cool enough to make 5100 SHP (it derates based on EGT, which is largely driven by DA and Ambient Temp) it would climb 4-500 fpm at a "reasonable" fuel load, say 5-6k. I know I didn't like doing practice single engine in the pattern above 7-8k with a nugget in the left seat, because, while it could fly Ok in normal ambient conditions if you weren't a goon, most guys fresh out of the RAG, me included, flew like goons when SE.. Safe, but just not enough seat time in the Hummer to have a good feel for how to fly it SSE.
I believe he's referring to minutia...as in the P-8 crowd is 10x better at not being a pain in the ass about stuff that doesn't matter.
There were rumors the same was happening on the HSM side, but I'm not sure I buy it, from what I've seen. I think it's more a product of the HS/HSC guys removing stuff out of the pubs. Unfortunately they also took a few good things out.
What Gator said.
Even the P-3 is much better than it reportedly used to be. For example it used to be a question that instructors would ask "how many knots are on the aft door escape rope?" Or "at what temperature do the rack overheat lights come on?"
Questions and knowledge that doesn't make you a better aviator or war fighter, just shit that you knew to prove you knew more than the other guy.
That's done in the P-8 so far.
Was it a J-model or Legacy? The reason I ask is because legacy Herks have the same motors as P-3's whereas J-models have newer Rolls Royce motors that put out significantly more horsepower. The reason we have ATCS (Automatic Thrust Control System) is to limit our outboard engine horsepower at slow speeds in a 3 engine situation is because the amount of asymmetric power produced in that situation will literally flip the plane over and crash before the crew has time to react.
With that said, going 3 engine in a high/hot/heavy situation is not as bad as it used to be since we do have that excess power and it lowers our VMCA quite a bit. I never flew the legacy, but I've been told that we have the same amount of power with 3 engines as a legacy does with 4.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I believe it was an H, got to go for a ride when rushing an ANG unit.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
(the joy of being still technically on AD at the time, with current everything)
That kind of margin could come down to how long ago the engines were last washed, how much bug splatter is on the prop blades, if the prop governors are running on the minus side of +/- % tolerance...
That kind of margin could come down to how long ago the engines were last washed, how much bug splatter is on the prop blades, if the prop governors are running on the minus side of +/- % tolerance...
Well aware, but I'll let you be the guy to tell the grunt on the ground that he'll have to go without his ISR coverage because it's too hot. Sucks, but sometimes that's the job...as you well know.
There are also some things working in your favor. In the P-3 the 3-ROC is based on mil power which isn't max power. We have about another 3-8% power available in a worst case scenario.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
"Jam it to the stops and hope shit don't melt power"
In theory, if one was in deep kimchee, one could turn the DETCs to OFF in a -427 and get about 6000HP for a little while.. Not sure if you can do that in a -425 (COD, older E-2s) or P3.
For the 60 bubbas, think of it as going into ECU LOCKOUT.
In theory, if one was in deep kimchee, one could turn the DETCs to OFF in a -427 and get about 6000HP for a little while.. Not sure if you can do that in a -425 (COD, older E-2s) or P3.
For the 60 bubbas, think of it as going into ECU LOCKOUT.
With the number of engines I have seen shit the bed I don't know how comfortable I would be putting the power levers to the stops while 3 engine....
I don't even think I would run it at 1077 much longer than absolutely necessary unless ground impact was imminent.
I don't even think I would run it at 1077 much longer than absolutely necessary unless ground impact was imminent.
Seems a bit extreme. We did max power takeoffs fairly frequently.