It's happened on this site, maybe not exact words but definitely implied. Others that are similar - Don't like illegal immigration - racist. Like Trump - racist.
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Racism in the Military
- Thread starter Charles Edward
- Start date
Oklahoma State’s football coach almost got cancelled for daring to wear an OAN t-shirt on a fishing trip. His star running back threatened not to play and said it’s “unacceptable”. Gundy didn’t do or say anything racist, but political dissent can’t be tolerated.
No gotcha felt or intended. I was hoping to learn. I guess I could be broad enough to consider a spectrum of racism with the KKK member on one end and a more passive form on the other end.
I can't speak for others but I do find myself wondering if someone has ever considered things I've said, that had no racist intent behind them, to be racist? Sort of like the "are you mad at me?" conversation with your wife but without the familiarity and love to ground the conversation.
I do think the definition of the word racism applied to individuals is changing. I also think that “racist” is being applied to things or systems more often.
Definitely. If someone acts like a jerk to every stranger equally, that’s bound to happen.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I think that's splitting hairs. It's hard to imagine an organization with systemic racism without some systematic issues.
I don't like personal anecdotes because most people are really bad at self assessment and accountability, and especially weaker sailors and officers. Other than people separating within about 6 months, I have never met a bad sailor or officer who knew or thought that he did a bad job, no matter how much he was counseled.
There are obvious cases of racism that occur (using slurs or making bad jokes), and when those happen they need to be reported to the CMEO, investigated, and stomped out. Perhaps more focus on this similar to sexual assault might get sailors more comfortable with filing formal reports.
But more frequently people use race (and sex) as an explanation of being singled out by their supervisors when it actually is their own poor performance that's the issue. For white people this usually manifests itself as 'the DH/XO/skipper is [insert negative adjectives],' although I've seen plenty of 'black/hispanic SNCO/officer always picks me for the bad deals because I'm white' complaints. It's usually bullshit coming from a bottom 10% performer.
Either way, mass self flogging that white people are racist for being white isn't productive. Splitting hairs over systemic vs systematic isn't productive either. What is productive is a conversation on how we can better catch and hold people accountable, and how do we create a culture where people feel more empowered to report these issues.
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nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
well if the Navy actually had a decent Fitrep system and didn’t rank officers based on their timing and would stop giving EPs and MPs to guys who cannot perform then we might be able to actually change and not have guys who are bottom 10% performers in charge of departments,divisions, or worst- command.
That is an entirely different thread though
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I would argue that the system isn't at fault, but the mentoring of some COs. If someone doesn't pass muster for the next milestone, their FITREP needs to say that in plain English.
Corollary: What a subordinate and superior consider as 'doing a good job' are often not aligned.
I see a lot of folks on the left side of this illustration.
I encourage you to try moving to the right side.
I encourage you to try moving to the right side.
I wouldn’t blame the FITREP/promotions system for that. It’s complicated, but as long as you have individuals grading their subordinates, there’s going to be some amount of subjectivity that results in a small minority of underperformers getting promoted. It’s not perfect, but the new system coming maybe next year will address a lot of the timing issues we deal with now, so that is a plus.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Can you share the highlights?
Brett, last year it was coming this year! Maybe COVID could be some small part of the blame, but it was what I was talking about last year when I said it had already been "coming soon" for over two years. I still am not super smart on the whole thing, and it won't affect me in any way, but yes fixing the timing problem was supposed to be one key part. Below from June of 2019 (they did FINALLY enact the syllabus change):
If I remember right, it would base your fitrep cycle on your checkin to the command vice whatever month your rank is due and COCs. It also changed the direct competition for #1 EPs somehow (I think to give the latitude that if you have two actual superstars you can reward both appropriately, and if you have none, doing the same vice putting all your effort behind the best of the "less than stellar"). I'm sure it's evolved since I was briefed on it.... And Brett likely could contribute a lot more about its current form.
I’m as frustrated as the rest of you. It is, as they say, late to need.
Being cynical, is that a realistic expectation? Many people don’t even put full effort into their day job. Add on top of that family duties, hobbies, and socializing. Moving to the right on your chart takes effort and risk. Staying on left side, no effort and no risk. Besides, where it really matters is how you treat other people when you interact with them. The guy or gal at the store or restaurant doesn’t check your blog writings - but they do notice how you treat them in the 3 minutes you’re there.