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At what rank do you stop flying?
- Thread starter mattr
- Start date
You can fly that entire time if you play your cards a certain way. However, in the Marine Corps, you generally alternate between jobs in your MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) and jobs outside your MOS. Those billets may be anything from flight instructor to Forward Air Controller to security forces. A search on "B-billets" will get a thousand hits. As a "company grade" officer (lieutenant to captain), your B-billets can easily be flying jobs, like IP. As you get more senior, those flying B-billets are one, harder to find, and two, less advantageous to your career. You're supposed to be broadening your experience to be a better leader at that point, vice improving your flying skills.
So, long story short, you can fly through 20 years, but becoming a commanding officer of a squadron or becoming a colonel will be even harder than it already is. Not impossible--there's always an exception that proves the rule, but much more difficult. That's not to say that flying your whole career isn't a worthy goal, just be aware that Newton's Laws are always in effect. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.
So, long story short, you can fly through 20 years, but becoming a commanding officer of a squadron or becoming a colonel will be even harder than it already is. Not impossible--there's always an exception that proves the rule, but much more difficult. That's not to say that flying your whole career isn't a worthy goal, just be aware that Newton's Laws are always in effect. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.
Most guys I knew who flew for 20 in the regular Navy only made it to O-4, usually for a variety of reasons. And then it's a little different if you mix regular and reserve --- I flew 18+ of 20 years --- regular and reserve --- made O-5 and was the "CO" of the Dallas Adversary unit. Probably more of a glorified O-in-C than a real CO, but it worked -- I got my parking spot.
Selected for O-6 in the reserves --- I'd had enough and didn't take the additional time obligation or the fourth stripe (already got it in the airlines
) or the "O-6 and above" parking spot -- which is what I REALLY wanted. There would have been NO flying in that billet, which clinched the turn-down for me. Like the man said ... it's how you play your cards.
Oh yeah, and you have to be lucky, too .....
Selected for O-6 in the reserves --- I'd had enough and didn't take the additional time obligation or the fourth stripe (already got it in the airlines
) or the "O-6 and above" parking spot -- which is what I REALLY wanted. There would have been NO flying in that billet, which clinched the turn-down for me. Like the man said ... it's how you play your cards. Oh yeah, and you have to be lucky, too .....
If you were to stay in the military for a full 20, would you always be flying or does the amount of time flying decrease with rank increase?
No results searching...
Active Navy: First tour: yes, second tour no (unless you go to the Training Command as an instructor), third tour probably, fourth tour no, fifth tour no (unless you make XO/CO), sixth tour no (unless you make CAG).
Reserves: Yes, until you make CDR and get excreted from your unit and a flying billet [*Unclean! Unclean!*] (unless you make XO/CO).
Average flying years active duty: 8
Average flying years Reserves after first active tour: 15
It's your decision.
No results searching...
Active Navy: First tour: yes, second tour no (unless you go to the Training Command as an instructor), third tour probably, fourth tour no, fifth tour no (unless you make XO/CO), sixth tour no (unless you make CAG).
Reserves: Yes, until you make CDR and get excreted from your unit and a flying billet [*Unclean! Unclean!*] (unless you make XO/CO).
Average flying years active duty: 8
Average flying years Reserves after first active tour: 15
It's your decision.
ip568 said:If you were to stay in the military for a full 20, would you always be flying or does the amount of time flying decrease with rank increase?
No results searching...
Active Navy: First tour: yes, second tour no (unless you go to the Training Command as an instructor), third tour probably, fourth tour no, fifth tour no (unless you make XO/CO), sixth tour no (unless you make CAG).
Reserves: Yes, until you make CDR and get excreted from your unit and a flying billet [*Unclean! Unclean!*] (unless you make XO/CO).
Average flying years active duty: 8
Average flying years Reserves after first active tour: 15
It's your decision.
How different/similar is this to the Marines?
AND ALSO .... it seemed that they guys who WERE squadron CO's and knew they were going no higher --- they were the MAX baggers -- traps, flight time, X-Countries, you name it. LOTs of flying for those boys ... the ultimate RHIP in action.
The guys who were trying to move on up to that "O-6 and above" parking spot seemed to spend a disproportionate amount of time on the ground, constipated and endlessly worrying and fretting about details, details, details. Frequently very unhappy souls ... but successful (?) . Yes???
The guys who were trying to move on up to that "O-6 and above" parking spot seemed to spend a disproportionate amount of time on the ground, constipated and endlessly worrying and fretting about details, details, details. Frequently very unhappy souls ... but successful (?) . Yes???
A4sForever said:
A man that has been a good mentor of mine, as well as the naval aviation club at our university, put that trend to shame. He managed to somehow get 1,645 traps, and holds the current record (unless it has been beaten recently). Retired as a Capt and was the CO of Strike Fighter Wing Atlantic. He drove 18s all the way up to his retirement.
According to him, it was nothing more than a combination of luck and timing.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Physicx said:
I don't know that it's entirely the case. In order to stay in the cockpit as long as possible, you have to do a "bad deal" tour to get the good deal. Here's how it's going to work for me:
Been in a flying squadron for four years, check out in December. Total flight time about 1400 hours.
FAC tour for 1 year that deploys to Iraq for 6 months.
HOPEFULLY, VMR-1 (stay in cockpit) for 3 years.
Command & Staff School
Back to fleet (possibly Okinawa) for one tour with a squadron.
More B-billet time
Come back as a CO...
So, out of 20 years or so about half will be out of the cockpit. The Marine Corps frowns very highly on getting too far away from the grunts...
I've never been one to buy fully on the FAC thing for assault pilots, except as a bargaining chip to get some other deal from the monitor, or if you really dig wearing cammies. Make your first B-billet as an IP at the FRS, Flt School, or (if you can) MAWTS-1. Then go back to the fleet, or if you are of the proper mindset, do your V-22 transition. Don't let yourself get snagged for any jobs near the flagpole (anything with an "HQ" in the title) until you're a major!!!
Under most conditions, if you're a solid performer, you won't get tagged for involuntary servitude as FAC, MWSS, Group, unless you ask for them. Being a coffee boy captain at wing or group HQ isn't going to help you any. As a major, your staff jobs can have pretty high impact. Certain staff jobs can even get you joint credit, which is important as you progress.
My point being, you do have to pay the man eventually. Don't pay him more, or earlier, than you have to. I'm on track to fly through year 14 of commissioned service, and I've got a decent career progression. Keep an eye on what types of billets are out there on the monitor's webpage, even if you're not moving that year. Caveats: 1) TBS lts and SNAs--don't bother yet, concentrate on what's important--learning to fly. 2) Don't actually start pestering your monitor until the year before you're supposed to move. Give yourself a long-term plan that fits your personal and professional goals and have a couple of fallback positions. Don't bet the farm on the exchange tour with the Canadian Snowbirds (BTW, I made that up, so no questions about it, please).
Under most conditions, if you're a solid performer, you won't get tagged for involuntary servitude as FAC, MWSS, Group, unless you ask for them. Being a coffee boy captain at wing or group HQ isn't going to help you any. As a major, your staff jobs can have pretty high impact. Certain staff jobs can even get you joint credit, which is important as you progress.
My point being, you do have to pay the man eventually. Don't pay him more, or earlier, than you have to. I'm on track to fly through year 14 of commissioned service, and I've got a decent career progression. Keep an eye on what types of billets are out there on the monitor's webpage, even if you're not moving that year. Caveats: 1) TBS lts and SNAs--don't bother yet, concentrate on what's important--learning to fly. 2) Don't actually start pestering your monitor until the year before you're supposed to move. Give yourself a long-term plan that fits your personal and professional goals and have a couple of fallback positions. Don't bet the farm on the exchange tour with the Canadian Snowbirds (BTW, I made that up, so no questions about it, please).
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
phrogdriver said:
My squadron is doing things a little differently, my CO views a deploying FAC tour as a "good deal". You know, something that is "career enhancing". So even though you generally think about it in terms of HAC-to-FAC, I'm a WTI-to-FAC. Our CO didn't even consider anything but second floaters. I pretty much already had orders lined up for VMR-1, all we were doing was waiting on the monitor to turn over. Then the FAC tour came down the pipe. Of course, the monitor says that as a WTI with a deploying FAC tour that I should get whatever I want.
As for transitioning to the Osprey, I have no desire to whatsoever. I love the Phrog, and don't want to fly anything other than the Phrog. I've been to the simulator, and I won't lie that it's pretty nice... Something about flying a tandem rotor helicopter that I just love...