B-BILLETS

[BigWorm]

I was wondering if anyone could fill me in on b-billets. I’ve heard that a tour as FAC is the least desired, and the most career enhancing. I haven’t heard to much about what a MEU staff tour, or EWS entails. There seems to be a big balancing act between those that want to stay in, and those that are looking transfer to the airlines. I am not sure of exactly what type of questions to ask – the only things I have heard about are becoming are a FAC or recruiter. I would be very interested in hearing how others have handled the balancing act, and how it worked out for them with promotions, or building hours before getting out. What are some of the other options out there as far as traveling abroad, or something a little more off the wall?
Cheers,
Andy

 

[46Driver]

There are some billets that are definitely career enhancing: FAC tours, MEU staff tours, EWS, WTI tours, and HMX tours. Some people actually like FAC tours - lot of time outside! MEU staff - you are really going to be deployed a lot - figure 2 pumps in a 24 month span. All resident schools are good as well.

If you want to build flight hours for the airlines, the best bet is a tour flying C-12's at station because the most important thing is multi-engine fixed wing time. After that, Vance and Corpus are good for bunches of fixed wing time. If you come back to PCola, its a crapshoot: you might get T-34's, you mihgt get TH-57's which are worthless for getting hired with an airline.

Off the wall? I tried for years and years to get attache duty in a foreign capital - denied, too short of pilots in the fleet (you really ought to try a Marine Corps Ball at an embassy overseas....). Also there are FAO and RAO tours. FAO is Foreign Area Officer: 2 years of school (1 for your Master's and 1 for a language at DLI) followed by 3 years overseas. RAO is similiar but only 1 year of school (no language). There are also assorted exchange tours (senior O-3's) and overseas staff tours (O-4's)

 

[BigWorm]

Thanx for the info – that is a lot to bite off right now. It’s a few years in my future before I will be making these decisions, but definitely something to look forward too. What is WTI? Any idea about the job description for MEU staff – is that anything like working in one of the S-shops except on a MEU?
With the off the wall sort of B-Billets, do you get those through your monitor or does it take a lot more politicking and meeting the right people?
One final question, my SPC said that he went away from FAO as a combat engineer because it would take him outside his MOS for an extended period and that he would lose credibility in his field. Does that hold true for aviation? I know there has to be some rules for maintaining currency, is it easy to get back into the cockpit after a tour like that?
Once again, thanx for the info.
Cheers,
Andy

 

[46Driver]

WTI stands for Weapons and Tactics Instructors (although we quite often call them Walking, Talking Idiots... IF you work for the MEU Staff, then it can be like working in an S shop (they have the same breakdown as a squadron S-1, S-2, etc)
You're SPC is correct, if you go outside of your MOS for an extended period, you will lose fleet credibility (fleet credibility in a helicopter squadron is considered as 2 pumps as a pilot). It will be difficult to advance (say much higher than O-4 or O-5) but as a FAO you would have a world of opportunities opened up to you on the outside.
As for maintaining currency, if you go for over 18 months without flying, you will have to refresh in the FRS. (I think that is correct, somebody help me out.)

 

[Q-ball]

Six months out of a 53 and you have to go through a modified refresher course at 302. Any and you have to go through the entire refresher course. Total agreement on the WTI description. We have a few of them over here.

Q

Marine Helo Pilot

 

[phrogdriver]

I think that the T&R actually says 12 months out of the aircraft, you have to refresh. Hence 11 months being the customary FAC billet length.

Too much time outside your community hurts, no matter what. For ex, HMX is career-enhancing, but if I went from flt school IP to there, I'd be 7 years outside my community (HMX is a 4 yr tour) and be pretty much done, career wise, unless I went into acquisitions (a whole other ball of wax too complicated for this discussion). Alternating fleet and non-fleet is the norm. If you're lucky, you stay in the cockpit.

Most of the off-the-walls have some kind of application process that comes out by message once a year. Some are just assigned by the monitor to those who volunteer..or are voluntold. It varies. Generally, those put you on a strange career path, unless you come right back to the fleet. The weird career paths may not be bad, but you may never be competing for a sqdn command, if that's your bag.

Phrogs phorever

 

[EA-6B1]

can you tell me what a "pump" is?

"There were many airplanes, but it was the skinny bird that scared us the most."
- Iraqi POW on the AH-1W Cobra -

 

[46Driver]

A "Pump" is a term used to describe a standard 6 month deployment (i.e. a MedFloat or a WestPac)

 

[thepilot33]

Can anyone explain to me what a billet is? I have heard a lot of rumors that if you are chosen to fly for the Marines that your second billet most likely will not be a flight slot. Does this mean that if you are flying an F-18 and are committed for eight years that you will not be flying for all of those eight. Or does your second billet exist only after you have served your eight year term. Sorry if this is confusing, but I am confused as well.
Derek

 

[Curmudgeon]

From my reading (NOT experience), the Marine flight path goes something like this:
10 weeks of OCS (lots of harassment and pressure to shake out the uncommited or unready) E-5 pay

commisioning (O-1 pay)

5 months of TBS (basically infantry school, lots of mud and packs, not so much direct abuse)

18 months (or more) of various flight school; a chunk (20%??) will drop from the flight path during this process and end up in whatever ground specialty is short of officers at the moment (they will only have the standard ground commitements). Something like 85% of Marine pilots will end up in a Helo track here, with 6-year commitment instead of 8.

Unless you have been screwing up badly, after two years of O-1, you will get O-2 (1st LT)

Somewhere around this time you will finish the various flight schools and get your wings; now your time starts counting against that 6 or 8 year commitment.

You still have more training, though, a somewhat indefinite time really focussed on your particular aircraft type in FRS; maybe around a year building up a bunch of specific qualifications in various procedures specific to your airframe. It's both training and a ready pool of pilots to fill in the operational squadrons when openings occur.

Now you hit your first real billet, or job. You will be with a specific operational squadron, ready to go into action if needed. You will have a home base, but you will probably deploy away from it for various lengths of time. Normally you would spend around 3 years with the squadron.

It's now time for rotating somebody else into your active seat. You will move to the B-billet, broadening your experience. If you want to keep flying, look for an instructor pilot slot back in one of the flight schools or FRS, but there are lots of other possibilities as well. Length of this can be somewhat variable, depending on the billet; I think the range would be 1-3 years.

You may then return to the squadron, typically with more responsibility appropriate to your rank. You probably take a pass through FRS for refresher qualification in your airframe.

 

[Pat1USMC]

That seems about right, but what is the part about guys being taken out of flight school for ground MOS's? I have never seen that...Unless you're talking about DORs or those who get medically disqualified...

 

[Curmudgeon]

The DOR (drop on request), NPQ (not physically qualified) were the main ones I was thinking of. Aren't there also some that get washed out by the staff? It seems like there is expected attrition, though I have no idea what the overall number is across API, Primary, ...

 

[E5B]

Also, TBS is 6 months, not 5.

Beetle

 

[phrogdriver]

Yes, some are shown the door involuntarily.

Phrogs phorever

 

[Frumby]

Currently, 1 out of every 4 SNA's (not including NPQ's or DOR's) at Kingsville will NOT get their wings due to grades, integrity or sheer stupidity. Grades: obviously not able to maintain the standards. Integrity: Attempting to hack into the Student Control computer to change your gradesheets. Stupidity: these are some of my favorites, threatening IP's with physical violence, impregnanting one of the enlisted staff, sexual encounters with an IP's wife. Amazing how some can have a lack of common sense.
If the SNA has already been on active duty for 4 years, then he will have the option to resign from Active duty. If not, for the Marines, he will orders to MOS school for training as an Admin Officer, Supply Officer, and Motor T, usually. I did have an SNA that requested and was able to become an NFO. Combat MOS's are difficult if nearly impossible if you wash out of flight school.
For jet guys, with TBS, Flight School and the RAG, it may be almost 4 - 5 years since your commissioning that you actually become a fleet aviator. Believe it or not, up until this time, you really have not had a real fitness report (only space fillers for SNA) and haven't been to the rifle and pistol range since TBS. Now you will spend about 3 years in your fleet squadron and should expect two 6 month pumps in those years. Time for orders and your main choices are going to be FAC (80% will get this), EWS (10%), TPS (2%), flight school (5%)and another 3% for "unique orders." Unique orders like UAV's, maybe ANGLICO or possibly even school at Naval Post Graduate. These numbers do fluctuate and depends on the needs of the Marine Corps. Flight school out of your first fleet tour is rare for a jet guy but it does happen. 3 years ago, the AV8's had been grounded for nearly a year so the monitors arranged for quite a few Harrier pilots to go back to flight school to teach and keep their skills up. Needs of the Corps. The trend for jet guys is to have billets that are less then a year out of the cockpit. After those one year billets, you are almost expected to come back to the squadron and pick up your department head tour. The guys who took the one year orders and request flight school out of those orders will generally receive those orders. 10-15% of those aviators will come back to the fleet. Most will get out but this is dependent on how the airlines are hiring. Right now retention in the fleet is quite good but the economy is swinging upwards so we will see. Hope that sheds a little light, Frumby

Attack Pilot
LtCol USMCR