Billionaire Fossett missing

[kejo]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/04/fossett.missing/index.html

He took out an aerobatic plane with no parachute (which I guess is required) and never filed a flight plan. I can see some local Joe Schmo Cessna taking off without filing a flight plan, but someone with as much experience as Fossett should know better...or not be so complacent.

Any one with a lot of GA time...is this a fairly common practice?

 

[Flugelman]

Any one with a lot of GA time...is this a fairly common practice?

Very common. A local flight out of a private airstrip... probably no route intended, just looking around. I've done it lots of times.
I'm presently located about 40 miles due north of Yerington right now and the wind is blowing like hell. Not great weather for search and rescue although it is CAVU.

 

[spitfiremkxiv]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/04/fossett.missing/index.html

He took out an aerobatic plane with no parachute (which I guess is required) and never filed a flight plan. I can see some local Joe Schmo Cessna taking off without filing a flight plan, but someone with as much experience as Fossett should know better...or not be so complacent.

Any one with a lot of GA time...is this a fairly common practice?

I'd say that the vast majority of local, day VFR flights are flown without flight plans on file, at least in the flat part of the U.S. where I fly. Pilots flying in the Nevada mountains might be more inclined to file because of the inherent dangers of mountain flying, but Fossett didn't necessarily deviate from the norm by not filing a flight plan. It doesn't necessarily make your flight safer, but it can help in those rare times that you dissappear and your emergency locater transmitter (ELT) fails you.

As for the parachute, it is only required when flying aerobatic maneuvers with two or more people on board, so Fosset was not required to be wearing one in this case.

Complacency? Not necessarily. Could he have been more prepared? Yes. But do you check your tire pressure or call somebody every time you drive your car? We can always do more...

He's a hell of a good man, let's hope he's okay.

 

[xj220]

I only file flight plans if I do cross country flights. Usually, I'll just grab a plane and go up and tool around for a bit. As long as you are VFR, it's not needed.

 

[wink]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but in the interest of discussion let me add something. I can be a long way from my hangar and not be on a x-c, or not so far away and over a vast wilderness, so I need not file a flight plan according to some of you. Yet if I go down, where and when will the search begin? A VFR flight plan is only for the benefit of the guy that goes down and requires a search effort. Flight plan, if you stay with it, sends the good guys in the right direction. With that in mind, I have flown 300+ mile cross countries and not filed a flight plan because I am literally over a freeway the entire time. If I go down it will be within a shout of help. On the other hand, I have wished I had a flight plan when I hear/imagine strange noises coming from the engine and I am on a local flight barely 20 miles from home plate but it is hostile as hell below.

 

[xj220]

A lot of it depends where you are, what kind of flying you'll be doing, etc. I usually don't stray far from the airport (mainly landing practice). If I were to be out in the middle of nowhere, I'd give someone a jingle.

 

[kejo]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but in the interest of discussion let me add something. I can be a long way from my hangar and not be on a x-c, or not so far away and over a vast wilderness, so I need not file a flight plan according to some of you. Yet if I go down, where and when will the search begin? A VFR flight plan is only for the benefit of the guy that goes down and requires a search effort. Flight plan, if you stay with it, sends the good guys in the right direction. With that in mind, I have flown 300+ mile cross countries and not filed a flight plan because I am literally over a freeway the entire time. If I go down it will be within a shout of help. On the other hand, I have wished I had a flight plan when I hear/imagine strange noises coming from the engine and I am on a local flight barely 20 miles from home plate but it is hostile as hell below.

This goes to the issue I was trying to bring out. I have very little civilian flying experience so I can't speak at all for general practice (where it seems to me now that it's not at all uncommon to fly VFR without filing), but still I feel like someone with Mr. Fossett's experience and passion for pushing the limits would also be pretty nitpicky about being as safe as possible while doing so.

I hope for the best though...

 

[theblakeness]

When I went through aerobatics training I was taught that you were only required to wear a chute if you were carrying a passenger..solo it wasnt required.

I would also imagine that someone with as many hours as Fossett would be more prone to NOT file a flight plan. Laziness tends to come with experience.

 

[HH-60H]

Laziness tends to come with experience.

AKA complacency

 

[Flugelman]

.... about being as safe as possible while doing so.

Filing a flight plan on a gedunk flight in a local area makes no sense as you don't know when you're going to be where. I don't know if he had a destination in mind but looking at some of the news reports (and we all know how accurate they can be ) it looks like he intended an out and back pleasure flight. A flight plan depicts a starting place/time, stops on the way, and an estimated arrival time at a destination. Looks like the authorities were notified very soon by friends/family when he didn't return so he had obviously let someone know his plans. Probably gets the ball rolling quicker than a flight plan would have.

 

[millerjd]

My instructor and I got into an argument about this, and I personally thought he won. Up until then I was always told to file a flight plan for going x-c VFR.

He told me, at least here in Arizona, it wasn't really worth the work. His argument was that it's better to be under radar control rather than just a flight plan because the second you go off radar, they start asking questions.

We called the Phoenix ATC via land line and got their opinion on the argument and he basically the same thing, that filing a flight plan isn't a bad idea, but if you are under radar control with flight following, the response time is less than a minute versus hours after your flight plan has expired.

Anytime I leave the local airport area I always ring up Phoenix ATC or Albuquerque Center and ask for flight following and that way someone has an eye on me just in case.

 

[HuggyU2]

Anytime I leave the local airport area I always ring up Phoenix ATC or Albuquerque Center and ask for flight following and that way someone has an eye on me just in case.

Shack.

 

[A4sForever]

..... Laziness tends to come with experience.

....AKA complacency

Disagree .... I've flown with and flight checked hundreds of pilots for over 35 years ..... lazy guys are always lazy and complacent guys are always complacent .... in the air or on the ground, young, old, or in between. Experienced or beginners. Somewhere along the line, the "good" complacent guys begin to learn how much they can "get away with" ..... and the slide begins. Those less capable, complacent beginners just don't get very far in the program.

Take a look at their personal lives, their houses, cars, personal habits, how they dress, the condition of their uniforms, how they flight plan, how they preflight, etc., etc. for confirmation. You can tell a LOT about a guy just by watching him or in the case of the Navy, by cruising with him. To say that "experience" breeds laziness or complacency is just wrong.

It's just harder to "catch 'em" when they're experienced --- as they KNOW how to do it --- they just "don't care" enough to "do it right" when someone is not "watching" ... this again, speaking from a Check Airman point of view. I can brief with a guy for 5 minutes and tell you how the flight is going to go and whether or not he's prepared .... and I'm probably right 95% + of the time .... as someone will always surprise you .....

With over 20K of flight hours ... I've may have been criticized for some things, but no one ever accused me of being "complacent" or "lazy".

Again, the true test of the man -- Aviator in this case -- is what he does "when no one's looking" .... at least that's been my ..... dare I say it (???) .... EXPERIENCE.

 

[HH-60H]

Disagree .... I've flown with and flight checked hundreds of pilots for over 35 years ..... lazy guys are always lazy and complacent guys are always complacent .... in the air or on the ground, young, old, or in between. Experienced or beginners. Somewhere along the line, the "good" complacent guys begin to learn how much they can "get away with" ..... and the slide begins. Those less capable, complacent beginners just don't get very far in the program...... long post

Interesting perspective, I hadn't consider that. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to say that pilots/people get lazy only because they gain experience. I was trying to say that the "laziness" that people/pilots might accept because of experience would be called complacency.

 

[A4sForever]

Interesting perspective, I hadn't consider that. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to say that pilots/people get lazy only because they gain experience. I was trying to say that the "laziness" that people/pilots might accept because of experience would be called complacency.

Gotcha ... roger that.