I like THIS one ... obviously a string of Mk82's from an A-6 w/the rack set on "ripple" ... now how'd any of YOU like to be on the receiving end of that kind of attention ... ???
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BOMBS AWAY - Old School v. New School
- Thread starter A4sForever
- Start date
I like THIS one ... obviously a string of Mk82's from an A-6 w/the rack set on "ripple" ... now how'd any of YOU like to be on the receiving end of that kind of attention ... ???
I once observed an A-6 drop on an NVA tank. Instead of a Mk-82 string in “ripple”, obviously feeling pretty sure of themselves, they dropped all in “cluster”!!! ……. And I guaran-F’n-tee you, even though the tanky hand been speeding and zig-zagging like crazy to escape, the tank crew suddenly regretted being on the “receiving end of that kink of attention!I like THIS one ... obviously a string of Mk82's from an A-6 w/the rack set on "ripple" ... now how'd any of YOU like to be on the receiving end of that kind of attention ... ???
A-6s with lots of ordinance were sweet!!
I once observed an A-6 drop on an NVA tank. Instead of a Mk-82 string in “ripple”, obviously feeling pretty sure of themselves, they dropped all in “cluster”!!! ……. And I guaran-F’n-tee you, even though the tanky hand been speeding and zig-zagging like crazy to escape, the tank crew suddenly regretted being on the “receiving end of that kink of attention!
A-6s with lots of ordinance were sweet!!
Yeah, except now I can plug every single bomb into an individual target, rather than just "spray and pray." Imagine being able to put that MK82 through the roof of a moving vehicle. Now if I could just convince them to let me launch wall to wall, and drop on everything.
Yeah ... 'cept YOU are not doin' it -- the system and/or PGM is ... as in your present day world, you can "plug every single bomb" from a trailer in the Nevada desert when it comes right down to it.
We didn't "spray & pray" ... we dropped w/ the pipper on Joe Gomer's head at the bottom of a 500 KIAS 45-60 degree visual dive ... sometimes just one at a time, other times the whole load in SALVO or RIPPLE -- it just depended on the target. If you're taking out a runway, a flight line, a truck park, an ammo dump, or a bunch of barges, it's gonna take "more than one". LGB's would have been great for pinpoint targets like Thanh Hoa. But if anyone was prayin', it was Joe ...
And I don't think there's never been a more effective air-delivered conventional weapon then that shit-load of metal comin' down from a B-52. Again, Joe was the only guy prayin' ...
When YOU do it ... up close & personal ... it's an art form; you're an ATTACK Pilot.
When the system does it, you're a good manager. Mebbe even a great manager ... but still, a manager.It's always GREAT to drop the target -- that's the object of the exercise. But given the choice of methods, personally, I'd rather have the satisfaction of doing it myself.
Lobster
Well-Known Member
Excuse me?????? Never did I spray and pray!!!!!!! Nor did my compatriots! And I bristle at the insinuation.
To add to A4s comments:
You don't "plug every single bomb", the black box does!
A long time ago, I most always hit was I aimed at, without computers or crutches. It took hard work.
But not so much that I practiced assiduously, studied the bombing charts religiously, concentrated under fire, aimed, and was a fairly good stick and rudder man. I did and was, but..... No, it was because I knew there were young Marines, Army, or ARVN guys close by who wouldn’t like it much if I “sprayed and prayed”, or even missed by a little!!!!!!!!!!!
After a few deep breathes upon reading your callow post, I looked in my stacks of ancient, personal records for my NAS Beeville VT-24 records, where I once had a zero CEP in Advanced Training. – My CEPs were all very good, but my best was 6 bullseyes with 6 little blue-bombs-of-death on a high-speed, low-angle (and more difficult) profile training flight with a grease pencil on the canopy, and an iron gun /bomb sight in a TA-F9 Cougar.
While today’s droids may be able to equal that, they will never exceed it, ever. And they will never get the “above averages” for it, either.
D ) Nor the elation, respect, or personal deep satisfaction of that acomplishment. (I’ll try to post the original record tomorrow when I find it.)Although I was a “fighter guy” I, (and all of us) took great pride in my (our)"attack", air to ground accomplishments, - in training and in combat - we all did! And we F-4 guys gave the attack guys a real run, often beating the A-7’s despite their analog computers. (Couldn’t beat an A-6 though….. equal them maybe, on a great day
maybe.)I later dropped LGBs with about the same results as I had with my iron-bomb sighted F-4. But the old thrill and satisfaction were significantly lessened, despite the BDA.
I will however admit to only one incident (and one that still haunts me), when, while I didn’t exactly “spray and pray” I did waver on a bombing run and missed my target. It was as a “tail-end charley” on a 30-plane Alpha Strike to a PT boat factory in downtown Haiphong, near what we called, the “donkey dick.”
As the last guy rolling in, and with the target by now obliterated in massive smoke and secondary explosions by the guys in front of me, and taking some serious fire and tracers from all over Haiphong by the canopy, I pickled a couple of hundred feet early, and was damn lucky to get the hell out of there! Don't know what I hit.
While technology is wonderful, necessary, and can do the job usually better than the man, I feel sorry for this generation and later. They will miss the thrill and satisfaction of pure self-reliance under fire.
Although it is no longer viable to fight without computers, there is something lost when the fighter must rely on a bunch of bits and bytes, and electrons, and not so much on his own wits, skill, training, and dedication. While your weapons system computer may be good, how do you know you are? And do you care? Do lives depend upon your computer, or you?
For all others reading this…….. Sorry for the rant and vent.
BT
PS: Its's more fun to do it live, than on a computer........
So no Hi-Tech black boxes in the scrum, ever, please!!!!!
Include Hellfire and you're exactly right. In fact, Preds put more warheads on foreheads in OEF last month than the Master Race did...and all from the "trailers" at Creech that A4s is alluding to.
Cool pic and definitely a sight to see. I had a lot of the last of the A-6 guys do my flight school training and even served with a few in the fleet who transitioned to hornets. They had some good stories.
The old vs. new penis measuring contest is kind of silly. I have a lot of respect for the vietnam generation. You guys faced a determined enemy and have a lot of green ink to show for it. However, to insinuate that modern pilots are just system managers and don't face "self-reliance under fire" is ludicrous. It would be like if a hellcat pilot came on here and called Vietnam pilots pussies with their jet engines and radars and missiles and...
The old vs. new penis measuring contest is kind of silly. I have a lot of respect for the vietnam generation. You guys faced a determined enemy and have a lot of green ink to show for it. However, to insinuate that modern pilots are just system managers and don't face "self-reliance under fire" is ludicrous. It would be like if a hellcat pilot came on here and called Vietnam pilots pussies with their jet engines and radars and missiles and...
A few times a year I would have the OPsO throw a no notice "Hinge and Above" vs. "The Kids" bomb-ex on the schedule. The loser, of course, bought the keg on Friday. My team was made up of CO, XO, DH's and/or Wing Rep's of appropriate age (Commodore, CAG, Weaps CO, etc.). The rules were simple: 12 Blue Death, first six any delivery method, second six manual, best team CEP wins. Though is wasn't combat, "The Kids" did enjoy the thrill and satisfaction of paying the O'club tab.
Do the aircraft still have the capability of doing manual drops?
The other day I was at the grocery store and had to leave my filled cart because the computer controlling the cash registers went tits up and there was no provisions for ringing up my groceries manually.
I would really hate to think that there is the possibility of a bunch of Grunts getting wiped out with a fully armed attack plane overhead who can't drop because the bomb computer is showing the Blue Screen of Death.
The other day I was at the grocery store and had to leave my filled cart because the computer controlling the cash registers went tits up and there was no provisions for ringing up my groceries manually.
I would really hate to think that there is the possibility of a bunch of Grunts getting wiped out with a fully armed attack plane overhead who can't drop because the bomb computer is showing the Blue Screen of Death.
And I have a lot of respect for the current crop -- wish I was "there" w/ 'em, as once you've "done it", you really can't get enough of "it".
Most guys aren't dumb enough to poo-poo the actions of those who came before them. If I could have flown anything, anywhere -- it WOULD have been strapped into a HELLCAT off a carrier in WW2 ...
You "missed the target" of my post; it's got nothing to do w/ "measuring".
My comment was directed at the mental ruminations of a fool.
Funny ... F-4 & A-6 ... same time-frame birds and same racks .... but our cockpit switchology gave the multiple drop options as: "RIPPLE" or "SALVO" ...I once observed an A-6 drop on an NVA tank. Instead of a Mk-82 string in “ripple”, obviously feeling pretty sure of themselves, they dropped all in “cluster”!!! …….A-6s with lots of ordinance were sweet!!
I guess Grumman thought "SALVO" sounded more "Navy" ... ???