Interesting article on how Brits are looking to US to help relearn the business of operating a big deck carrier after losing their corporate knowledge by going to small decks 3 decades ago.
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Brits look towards reintroducing big deck carriers
- Thread starter HeyJoe
- Start date
Is that really the Brits' intent? It's difficult to imagine that their economy or diminishing international status could support such an expensive shift in the way their Navy does air ops.
Brett
WheelsUpHeelsUp
Banned
Give them the Kennedy or Shitty Kitty, ought to have a few miles left in em.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
They can probably convert the JFK back to burning Bunker C and get some better gas mileage too...
They just put the first one on contract this past week and have named both vessels so it's looking pretty solid despite years of debate over what to replace the Invincible class with in 2014. This article gives a good summary although dates of introduction conflict with other reporting (2012 vs 2014).
I did some training with the RAF last summer and spent some time talking with some folks who are working on their acquisition side. Great guys and I really enjoyed it. Some light reading to back up HJ's entry:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...ritains-new-cvf-future-carrier-updated-01630/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...ritains-new-cvf-future-carrier-updated-01630/
They do not want any hand-me-downs or yesterday's news. They want money in their own economy and preservation of their industrial base that is now mutually interlocked with that of France from mergers of the big defense primes over there. See this article for where the big chunks of work are going.
WheelsUpHeelsUp
Banned
8 Billion is a lot of scratch especially for the Brits who are not exactly wallowing in money. That's 8 billion out of heavily taxed tax payers pockets. Both of those yesterdays news Super Forrestal class bird farms updated would save them a ton and still make a statement.
Not saying it's gonna or even could happen but just a thought. Anything is better than them going to the breakers or be a gd-damn gold fish preserve.
So now it's come full circle ??? ... As the Brits arguably "invented" much of what later became "our" USN "corporate" carrier knowledge ...
So now it's come full circle ??? ... As the Brits arguably "invented" much of what later became "our" USN "corporate" carrier knowledge ...
Exactly, that is what is so ironic in a general sense...Brits introduced armored flight decks, steam catapults, mirrored lens and angled decks and had the expertise in employing them. Now they're coming to us to regain those "knowledges", but even more interesting was the hue and cry from the Brits after the Falklands campaign that the big decks were obsolete and our carriers were merely dinosaurs easily detected and eliminated. So we went over to Ocean Safari 85 and took tham and all of NATO with the Soviets trying to locate the America battle Group as well. The press got into the action and hired a helo to show they could locate the carrier themselves. SECNAV Lehman himself came aboard to watch the showdown. The America Battle Group sent a battleship up north with escorts and recorded comms from the air wing. Low overcast helped and even the Bears couldn't find America, which in the night and heavy seas slipped through a cordon of NATO and Soviet ships and subs strung across the GIUK gap. When the NATO air forces marshalled their massive aerial search and attack armada, America had offset her CAP stations away from the ship and further out than normal. Tomcats were sent on extended chainsaw orbits and actually came up behind the NATO takers and jumped the assembling forces scattering them in disarray and taking out their snoopers from behind. Meanwhile, a stirke force was sent on a 1200 mile mission to tap the Soviet crusier battle group and NATO ships in the English Channel. None of the aircraft were intercepted and the ships were caught at quarters in heavy fog. Many lessons learned for the Brits that didn't quite come out in the Falklands the way it should. Namely, value of persistent AEW (they learned this lesson but could only introduce a helo based option) and a lot of gas in the air with long range/endurance fighters as well as ability to launch preemptive long range strikes. Brits were very lucky in Falklands that islands weren't closer to mainland because attacking A-4 and Mirages had no margin to engage. Their Sea Harriers had a ridiculously short on station time, but did extremely well with the radar picket support in place (which paid a heavy price). As was said at the time "It was a very close run thing".
Regardless, the big decks have proven themselves in versatility and staying power over and over. Gary Hart and company tried to get US to go the way of the Brits decades ago, but Navy did the analysis and opted to stay the course.
Flathatter13
Banned
Is is possible the long development time of the VSTOL version of the F-35 compared to the standard AF and Navy versions may be playing a roll in this decision? Maybe they are thinking it would be better to get the F-35 that will be in production sooner and get the ship to work around it rather than finding a plane that will operate off the smaller ship.
Kind of like HeyJoe said, the standard version if I remember correctly will offer more range etc. then the vstol version, and maybe that is what the Brits are wanting to return to.
Kind of like HeyJoe said, the standard version if I remember correctly will offer more range etc. then the vstol version, and maybe that is what the Brits are wanting to return to.
If by "standard" you mean the CV model, it's the last in the pipe for production and probably the one with the least commitment.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cvf/ said:
Read: Someday maybe but... no way in hell. This would be VERY expensive and not very likely, it would only happen if the STOVL version is cancelled outright. I've seen the way they spend money on defense over here and it makes the Corps look generous.
And how exactly do USMC Harriers operating off a ship that's smaller than normal teaching the Brits how to operate a big deck carrier?
... and hurricane bows, too. Even the island located on the starboard side of the flight deck was a Limey "invention" (did someone say LIMES ???
) first seen on HMS Hermes, I believe --- as that was determined to be the more desirable place to be conning the ship from with a deckload of recips trying to take off with NERR ... (LSO term) heyjoe said:
You mean ... the sex scandals??? Gary "Hartpence" ...
... one seldom hears the "Hartpence" part. Why is it politicians try to hide their heritage and lineage ... ??? I think we all know why ... but it's kind of like another present-day candidate that we've discussed with the name of "Hussein". I love it. "Hussein"??? Who's sane ... ???