Canadian Navy bans drinking at sea

[nittany03]

http://gcaptain.com/partys-canadian-navy-bans-drinking-sea/

One step backward for civilization. Yes, we Yanks have not been able to do this (legally) for years, thanks to Josephus Daniels and his edict. It's still wrong. If you can't responsibly handle alcohol with flying or shipdriving duties, you either need DAPA treatment or an ADSEP. Period. Apparently, we're not the only service who responds to localized leadership failures with collective punishment.

The heck with it; the AF controls consumption at the CAOC using the CAC card. And I'll even spot you hard liquor, so that no one can play the vodka/gin game with a water bottle on board USS Boat. We'll even hypothetically set the limit at one or two beers or glasses of wine a day. Tell me it's not feasible to allow our officers and sailors (or the Canadians) to have ONE drink of the Demon Rum responsibly with dinner on board USS Boat. Yet we can somehow secure a whole beer day's worth on board a carrier from time to time without the world screeching to a halt. North or south of the border, none of us is as dumb as all of us.

 

[Sheepdip]

The stories at RIMPAC the morning after this went down were great.

 

[nittany03]

The stories at RIMPAC the morning after this went down were great.

Which is funny, considering the last RIMPAC I did, they had a big reception onboard Nimitz where some senior muckety-muck had authorized drinks to be served. To responsible adults from numerous countries. GASP! The horror! But I will say that the Mexican Navy makes some DAMN good fajitas. Or carne asada tacos. Or whatever the technical term is for that ridiculous goodness in a tortilla they were serving. Kicking myself for not getting the recipe. At any rate, not only did it not turn into a scene from Caligula, but I doubt that the week-long official amnesty afterward for the people who had allegedly pilfered beer actually got everything. Not that I or anyone I knew actually did such a thing; just saying. And yet, somehow, the ship never blew up and sank.

Unless the Demon Rum later had something to do with that damn malfunctioning reactor pump that cheated me out of an Air Medal . . .

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Which is funny, considering the last RIMPAC I did, they had a big reception onboard Nimitz where some senior muckety-muck had authorized drinks to be served. To responsible adults from numerous countries. GASP! The horror! But I will say that the Mexican Navy makes some DAMN good fajitas. Or carne asada tacos. Or whatever the technical term is for that ridiculous goodness in a tortilla they were serving. Kicking myself for not getting the recipe. At any rate, not only did it not turn into a scene from Caligula, but I doubt that the week-long official amnesty afterward for the people who had allegedly pilfered beer actually got everything. Not that I or anyone I knew actually did such a thing; just saying. And yet, somehow, the ship never blew up and sunk.

Unless the Demon Rum later had something to do with that damn malfunctioning reactor pump that cheated me out of an Air Medal . . .

I was at an event on the Abe where alcohol was served, it was during San Francisco's fleet week, no one went nuts, very tame, until we left the ship, then things went wild, never before had I walked into so many strangers houses in one night getting free booze.

I do remember several officers getting in trouble for drinking while underway early in my career, all A-6 guys.

 

[xj220]

For those of us who don't go on those big, gray things, what happens if you are found to have alcohol on board?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

For those of us who don't go on those big, gray things, what happens if you are found to have alcohol on board?

In the case I spoke of, they were masted and sent home, the CAG and CSG addressed the crew about what happened and said their flying careers were over, as they were caught drunk while on flying duty/status? (I may have the term wrong) we were in the Persian Gulf and supposed to be available to launch planes.

They had gone to great lengths to get the alcohol, friends of the aviators put the alcohol in large peanut butter jars and then put the peanut butter around the jars which were then shipped off.

They were caught because one of the drunk LT's became hungry, stumbled into the wardroom right into the CO of another squadron, and it was all downhill from there.

In the other case, one of which was my sailor, he was sent to mast, RIR suspended, 1/2 month pay x 2, 60 days restriction. I had another who the morning after liberty found me and told me he accidentally brought a bottle back to the ship in his backback (security missed this when searching his backpack), he was fined 1/2 month pay suspended for 6 months.

 

[Brett327]

Not sure I would want 1/3 of ships company under the influence when the ship sounds GQ for reals.

Drinking while underway is playing with fire.

 

[BigBadBoJenkins]

Not sure I would want 1/3 of ships company under the influence when the ship sounds GQ for reals.

Drinking while underway is playing with fire.

http://legacy.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070922/news_1n22halsey.html

[URL='http://legacy.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070922/news_1n22halsey.html#']
Drunken party on destroyer led to skipper's dismissal

Commander concealed extent of shipboard fire

By Steve Liewer STAFF WRITER

September 22, 2007

An in-port party that resulted in sailors showing up drunk to fight a shipboard fire contributed to the February dismissal of a San Diego-based destroyer's commander, according to a Navy report obtained by The San Diego Union-Tribune.

Cmdr. John J. Pinckney Jr. was relieved after a Navy inquiry revealed how he encouraged other officers and sailors – even those on watch duty – to drink during and after the Nov. 2 reception aboard the Halsey for dignitaries in Kagoshima, Japan.

The investigation also indicated that Pinckney changed a report to hide the seriousness of the fire that damaged one of the ship's two main reduction gears, which help drive the propellers.

The Halsey returned to San Diego on Dec. 24 without further incident. But the Navy linked an explosion and fire in the same gear the next month to Pinckney's incomplete account of the first fire.

Damage from the second blaze cost $8.5 million to repair and knocked the destroyer out of commission for six months.[/URL]

 

[squeeze]

Not sure I would want 1/3 of ships company under the influence when the ship sounds GQ for reals.

Drinking while underway is playing with fire.

The Italian Navy carrier Cavour has 3 bars on it. They have wine readily available in the wardroom during lunch and dinner. An aperitivo before dinner, a glass of wine during, and an amaro after is the norm. Very rarely is anyone "intoxicated" based on what I've seen or heard. People police themselves well, don't drink prior to/on duty, pilots adhere to the rules.; It's a complete non-issue. I'm not going to say that Italy should be the worldwide model for a military, but the issue has more to do with the cultural taboo of alcohol and how Americans interact with it as a result.

 

[Brett327]

The Italian Navy carrier Cavour has 3 bars on it. They have wine readily available in the wardroom during lunch and dinner. An aperitivo before dinner, a glass of wine during, and an amaro after is the norm. Very rarely is anyone "intoxicated" based on what I've seen or heard. People police themselves well, don't drink prior to/on duty, pilots adhere to the rules.; It's a complete non-issue. I'm not going to say that Italy should be the worldwide model for a military, but the issue has more to do with the cultural taboo of alcohol and how Americans interact with it as a result.

Absolutely, and I'm sure it works very well for them, and the French, and others.

 

[Uncle Fester]

They embarked a Marine Harrier det on Ark Royal a few years ago for a summer exercise. The US skipper had his guys follow British rules wrt drinking aboard, which were the same in essentials as US rules in port. No drinking on duty or within so many hours of going on duty, 12 hours bottle to brief, etc. No problems reported.

Somehow every other western navy makes alcohol aboard work.

 

[Flash]

I was surprised but the Dutch follow the new Canadian rules, only drinking in port though they still have at least one bar per ship. I would like to say that alcohol did not affect the Italians at work but since they didn't work at all the summer I was with them I'll have to rely on Squeeze's word.

 

[squeeze]

I would like to say that alcohol did not affect the Italians at work but since they didn't work at all the summer I was with them I'll have to rely on Squeeze's word.

My anecdote is independent of the amount of work or quality of that work they do. I never said it was much.

/3 weeks off in August, 2.5 for Thanksgiving, 3 for Christmas

 

[Uncle Fester]

There are plenty of navies which come from cultures similar in drinking attitudes and work ethic to the US who don't have an issue with alcohol aboard; the Brits, Aussies and Canadians (well, until now, I guess) come immediately to mind. And say what you will about the French, but they safely and consistently conduct fixed-wing CATOBAR carrier ops on a nuclear boat even if they have a glass or two with dinner. And they and others run conventional and nuke subs safely - and I'd submit that if you're worried about all hands being able to turn to sober in an emergency, it's even more critical on a sub than any surface ship.

Josephus Daniels was a hard-core anti-alcohol activist and part of the same movement that made Prohibition a thing. It wasn't that drinking aboard was causing significant problems; it was a moralizing busybody forcing his personal convictions on the institution he ran. But somehow it became part of our collective wisdom that the Devil Rum will ruin our ships if it ever gets back aboard.

This is one of those things that could certainly be managed on USN ships, if the will were there. Make the rules clear and reasonable, enforce them consistently, adjust them if necessary. Limit consumption to the mess decks and wardrooms so that it's regulated. Issue 'beer cards' like ashore. What if a guy shows up drunk for duty aboard? Well, what do you do if a guy shows up drunk for duty pierside or at the squadron? Take his ass to mast. Shit, we're putting breathalyzers aboard anyway.

 

[Flash]

...Shit, we're putting breathalyzers aboard anyway.

They are not breathalyzers, they are 'Alcohol Detection Devices'.