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CAPT Scott Speicher - KIA

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Dave Shutter

Registered User
Clinton on a "Speicher" crusade? In his last days?

from CNN.COM...

quote:WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Clinton says there is some evidence that a U.S. flier shot down on the first night of the Gulf War may be alive.

Clinton's statement Thursday went further than a Navy announcement that it has changed the status of the F-18 pilot, Lt. Cmdr. Michael Speicher from killed in action to missing.

"We have some information that leads us to believe that he might be alive and we hope and pray he is," Clinton said in an interview with CBS. "But we have already begun working to try to determine whether, in fact, he's alive; if he is, where he is and how we can get him out and we're going to do everything we can to get him out."

Speicher was shot down while flying a mission from the carrier USS Saratoga on the opening night of the 1991 war.

"Since he was a uniform service person, he's clearly entitled to be released, and we're going to do everything we can to get him out," Clinton said. The president cautioned, however, that he did not want the change in Speicher's status to "raise false hopes."

Iraq has never accounted for Speicher.

Barry Hull, who flew off the Saratoga on the same mission with Speicher, said Friday he is puzzled by the fact Speicher's uniform was found in the Iraqi desert.

"That's one of the pieces of the puzzle that just doesn't fit," Hull said on CBS' "The Early Show." "If I get shot, the moment I pull that ejection handle, I'm no longer a pilot. At that point I'm a soldier and the last thing I'm going to do, running around in the desert, is take off my flight suit and walk around in my skivvies. It just doesn't make any sense."

Hull said "my gut tells me that he is probably dead, but there is no evidence that he's dead."

The Navy statement did not mention the possibility that Speicher could be alive. One day after it notified Speicher's family of the decision to change his status to MIA, the Navy said Thursday that "additional information and analysis" led Navy Secretary Richard Danzig to reverse earlier determinations that Speicher had died.

The Navy did not explain what new information it had obtained. As recently as 1996 it had reaffirmed a 1991 "finding of death."

Pentagon officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said Danzig acted because of substantial evidence that Speicher may not have died in the crash.

One official said the State Department sent a new diplomatic note to Baghdad demanding that the Iraqi government tell all it knows about Speicher's fate.

"We don't have a response from Baghdad," Philip Reeker, a State Department spokesman, said Thursday.

He said similar U.S. notes would be sent Iraqi representatives at the United Nations in New York and in Geneva.

"We do believe that the Iraqis hold additional information that could help resolve the case of Commander Speicher, and they are obligated to provide that information to us," Reeker said.

In March 1999, Republican Sens. Bob Smith of New Hampshire and Rod Grams of Minnesota asked Danzig to change Speicher's status to missing in action, reflecting evidence of doubt about whether he survived the crash. Smith met with Danzig again Dec. 20 on the matter, officials said.

In a letter dated Dec. 18, Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security adviser, told Smith a recent intelligence assessment "has stimulated a high-level review of this case _ several new actions are under way and additional steps are under intense review."

Berger's letter, provided to The Associated Press on Wednesday, did not specify what actions were contemplated.

Speicher, of Jacksonville, Fla., went missing when his Navy F-18 Hornet was shot down on Jan. 16, 1991, in an air-to-air battle with an Iraqi fighter. He was the first American lost in the war and the last still unaccounted for.

Reports, rumors and theories about Scott Speicher still being alive have been floating around for years, but now Clinton decides to jump on the wagon with it? Personally I'm thrilled that the subject finally has the CIC's interest, maybe now we'll all find out for sure what happened to Speicher that night, but at this point in Clinton's term (especially with all the talk about him trying to forge some kind of legacy other than Monica L.) I'm not so sure about the purity of his motives. People have been screaming about this story for years and he waits until now to give it his full attention?

60 minutes did a piece on this story earlier last year and it basically contained all the evidence that supports him still being alive, and evidence that commanders may have dropped the ball. I quoted the transcript for it, followed by a huge discussion. John, would you be so kind as to put up one of your spiffy links to that...

D

Edited by - Dave Shutter on 01/13/2001 11:58:45
 

Tripp

You think you hate it now...
Pilot Believed Alive, Held in Iraq

This one's for you Dave (I believe you were the one so interested in the LCDR Speicher case?).

quote:Pilot Believed Alive, Held in Iraq
Bill Gertz
The Washington Times
March 11, 2002
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020311-40815350.htm

U.S. intelligence agencies have obtained new information indicating Iraq is holding captive a U.S. Navy pilot shot down during the Persian Gulf war, The Washington Times has learned.

British intelligence provided the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) with the new information several months ago, and intelligence officials said it could assist in the ongoing investigation into the fate of Navy Lt. Cmdr. Michael Scott Speicher.

Cmdr. Speicher was declared killed in action in 1991 after his F-18 Hornet was shot down over Iraq. But last year he was re-classified as "missing in action" by the Pentagon, based on information from an Iraqi defector.

According to U.S. intelligence officials, the British intelligence information was based on an additional intelligence source — someone who had been in Iraq and said he had learned that an American pilot is being held captive in Baghdad.

The British report stated further that only two Iraqis were permitted to see the captive American pilot: the chief of Iraq's intelligence service, and Uday Hussein, son of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, said the officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

The new intelligence has led some Pentagon officials to believe Iraq is holding Cmdr. Speicher prisoner.

One U.S. official said the new agent offered to identify the exact location in Baghdad where the American is being held and also offered to obtain a photograph of the prisoner.

A defense official said the new information is not related to an earlier report from an Iranian pilot who was repatriated recently to Iran and said that he had seen an American held prisoner in Iraq. "That was checked out, and the intelligence community didn't find anything about it," the defense official said.

President Bush has been briefed on the new intelligence on Cmdr. Speicher and the likelihood of an American POW in Baghdad is being factored into U.S. policy toward future operations against Iraq, the officials said.

DIA spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Jim Brooks said the Speicher case is "an active investigation." The agency "investigates and continues to investigate all reports regarding the Speicher case." He declined to comment further on specific reports on the case.

A White House spokesman could not be reached for comment.

It could not be learned if the Bush administration is taking steps to contact the Iraqi government about Cmdr. Speicher.

However, U.S. intelligence agencies are continuing to gather information on the case, the official said.

The CIA sent a notice to Congress Feb. 4 saying it had obtained new intelligence related to Cmdr. Speicher and is expected to provide more information in a briefing that could come as early as this week, one official said.

A U.S. intelligence report from March 2001 stated: "We assess that Iraq can account for Cmdr. Speicher but that Baghdad is concealing information about his fate."

The report, ordered by the Senate Intelligence Committee, stated that Cmdr. Speicher "probably survived the loss of his aircraft, and if he survived, he almost certainly was captured by the Iraqis."

The report stated that Cmdr. Speicher's aircraft was shot down by an Iraqi jet firing an air-to-air missile, and that the jet crashed in the desert west of Baghdad.

An unclassified summary of the report, "Intelligence Community Assessment of the Lieutenant Commander Speicher Case," was obtained by The Times.

The intelligence community report said that after the Gulf war cease-fire, Cmdr. Speicher was not among the 21 U.S. military personnel released, nor were his remains returned.

The new intelligence information bolsters an earlier report from an Iraqi national. In 1999, an Iraqi defector reported to U.S. intelligence officials that he had taken an injured U.S. pilot to Baghdad six weeks after the Gulf war began. He identified Cmdr. Speicher in a photograph as the pilot.

Based on the defector report and pressure from Sen. Robert C. Smith, New Hampshire Republican, the Navy changed Cmdr. Speicher's status from killed in action to missing in action on Jan. 11, 2001.

The intelligence community report stated that during an investigation of the crash site in 1995, Iraqi officials provided investigators with a flight suit that appeared to be the one worn by Cmdr. Speicher. The flight suit had been cut.

The intelligence report concluded that the pilot "probably survived the crash of his F/A-18."

"We assess Lt. Cmdr. Speicher was either captured alive or his remains were recovered and brought to Baghdad," the report said.

Mr. Bush has called Iraq one of three "axis of evil" states, and there have been intelligence reports indicating Iraq may have supported the September 11 attacks.

The government of the Czech Republic monitored a meeting in Prague between an Iraqi intelligence officer and Mohamed Atta, regarded by U.S. investigators as a ringleader for the September 11 attacks.

Senior Pentagon policy-makers have said Iraq should be the next target for U.S. anti-terrorism operation.

Cmdr. Speicher was the pilot of a Navy F-18 jet that was shot down by enemy fire on Jan. 17, 1991, the first day of combat operations in the Gulf war.

Defense Secretary Richard B. Cheney said during a news conference that same day that the pilot had been killed, and the Navy declared Cmdr. Speicher killed in action five months later.

The intelligence community report said that Iraq's government learned that the pilot was declared dead and as a result felt it probably did not have to account for him at the end of the war.

At first the Pentagon believed Cmdr. Speicher's aircraft was hit by either a ground- or air-fired missile and broke up in flight.

But the aircraft was later found intact and its canopy was found some distance from the crash, a sign the pilot had ejected.

The CIA also was told about the capture of an American pilot in the early 1990s but dismissed the information as coming from an unreliable agent, the officials said. The agency later acknowledged its dismissal was an error, U.S. officials said.
 

Boss_BlueAngels

Instrument training
Lol, I know you must just chuckle at this... but what's all that talk about "not a single F-18 was lost in the gulf war" at airshows, and TV? Dang, that makes me mad! lol (Not to mention the fact this guy may have been there for all this time!) Oh well, what can I say, I'm just a dreaming high schooler still! :)
 

Dave Shutter

Registered User
Again...little of this is new. There was A lot of the information around right after the Gulf War, but why should the media bother exploring it these past years when they've had Menedez Bros., OJ, Monica, "Giff" cheating on Kathie Lee, D. Trump's umpteen divorces and so on...I'm sure the Clinton Admin knew about it, but hey, I guess they were too busy keeping themselves out of jail.

Hey Tripp! Where the hell ya' been, how's school going!

Edited by - Dave Shutter on 03/12/2002 01:06:55
 

Tripp

You think you hate it now...
Hey, Dave...yeah, I haven't been around in a while. Glad to see you're still around...

What's new? Well, I got screwed over by Auburn Aviation, so now I'm majoring in journalism. Hehe, now I get to take all of these easy lib arts classes like archaeology and psychology. No mo finance/accounting/calculus for me! Maybe I'll continue picking up my ratings (currently Private/Instrument), but for now, I don't have the cash (Of course, American Express and Visa think I'm loaded, thanks to the many thousands of dollars I've thrown at AUO).

Edited by - Tripp on 03/12/2002 17:46:58
 

vballpilot

Registered User
Here is a link that should get your blood boiling:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/speic_ev.htm

--Why we didn't send people in to look for this guy is amazing to me. My uncle who served in the gulf said that it was a huge problem obtaining the right assets for SAR. After hearing all this stuff about LtCmdr Spiecher I can understand the reasoning of sending that second chopper out in Afghanistan to retrieve that SEAL who was killed.
 

Dave Shutter

Registered User
Despite the numerous honor codes and mottos of warfare communities, politicians (in and out of uniform) usually aren't going to risk a half dozen or more KIA's/hostages over one guy, but then again efforts could have been made on his behalf and we might never know about them. You have to remind yourself that not everything ends up on CNN. For all we know Delta Force has gone into Iraq and shot up dozens of bases looking for him unsuccesfully. In a situation like this you feel critical but you really can't because there's most likely volumes of intel we the public don't know.
 

Brooklyn

Registered User
Commander Speicher was promoted to Captain this morning, 3/14/02. For those that haven't heard, there is a book coming out soon called: "The Pilot that was Left Behind."
 

MVS26

Registered User
Brooklyn, what's your source on that promotion? He was only a Lieutenant Commander in 1991, and I never heard that he was promoted to full Commander.
 

Brooklyn

Registered User
It was announced the morning of my post. I heard it on the radio (AM 790, WNIS) during an interview with the author of the book mentioned in the post.
 

theblakeness

Charlie dont surf!
pilot
Lt. Cmdr Scott Speicher

Just saw a program about Lt. Cmdr Speicher tonight on the Discovery channel. It was very nice learning a little bit more about what happened and whats still going on too this very day, considering I was in like the third grade during the Gulf war.

For those of you who arent familiar, Speicher was a Navy Hornet pilot who was shot down on the first day of the gulf war. At first declared KIA, evidence to continues to boil to the surface too this very day that he in fact may have survived the wreckage and may have even (or still is) been a POW in Iraq. The department of the Navy changed his status from KIA to MIA, and now to MIA/POW.

After seeing the program I went by the official Scott Speicher support website to learn a little more at: http://www.freescottspeicher.com only to find that just today US forces found the initials of Scott Speicher (MSS=Michael Scott Speicher) carved into a wall in an Iraqi prison. Were they his? I dont know, but the official report says that it is "strong evidence that Speicher was held by Saddam's forces.

Anyway go by the site and show your support for one of America's finest.
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I certainly hope the U.S. finds him and brings him back....What do you think that would do for all the war protesters out there? He is in my thoughts and prayers!
ea6bflyr [:|]
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Of the war protestors I know at my school, about 95% aren't against the war per-say (sp), but against America and Bush. They're scum, they don't even know what they're saying. I mean that literally, they have never made a coherent argument to me.

Navy ROTC Guy
 

La Tech Aviator

Registered User
I have kept up with the Capt. Speicher story for some while now. I read a book about it, and have kept him in my prayers for years now.

I watch the news every day in hopes of his return.
 
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