career progression

[cougar23]

My last attempt to get this question answered didn't get any feedback. I'm currently trying to decide between air and subs on which side of the house to go into, and someone has already answered my question regarding subs on here.

I was wondering if anyone out there could tell me the general career progression of aviators, such as duties and responsibilities. When do you get first command of a squadron, carrier wing, etc? What are the general responsibilties of aviation officers at the different ranks and command positions?

 

[cougar23]

it says that thread is closed. And when I search it mainly just brings up my old copy of this same message.

 

[Brett327]

it says that thread is closed. And when I search it mainly just brings up my old copy of this same message.

Yeah, dude. I started a post in response, then realized that it would have taken me 30 minutes to do your question justice. You can search out the basics, then come back here for details/minutiae.

Good times,

Brett

 

[The Chief]

My last attempt to get this question answered didn't get any feedback.

Well, several have obviously spent a lot of time trying.

Take a look at the following link at the Academy. Know it is for Submarine Officers, but the basic template applies to the aviation side as well. There is an Aviation template but could not find it in the 5 minutes I allocated to do a search. It is out there.

http://www.usna.edu/Submarines/career.html

After review of this template, ask specific questions you have regarding aviation. Print two copies out and fill in boxes for the aviation side. Presto, you have your side by side comparison.

 

[Brett327]

Well, several have obviously spent a lot of time trying.

Take a look at the following link at the Academy. Know it is for Submarine Officers, but the basic template applies to the aviation side as well. There is an Aviation template but could not find it in the 5 minutes I allocated to do a search. It is out there.

http://www.usna.edu/Submarines/career.html

After review of this template, ask specific questions you have regarding aviation. Print two copies out and fill in boxes for the aviation side. Presto, you have your side by side comparison.

Just for the record, the aviation career path is completely different from surface or sub guys. I'll summarize:

1. First sea tour: 3 years in an operational squadron.
2. First shore tour: 2-3 years ashore in a wide variety of flying and non-flying billets.
3. Disassociated sea tour: 2-3 years usually staff or ships company meaning you likely won't be flying. Some billets for "Super JO" to go back to a squadron, but usually reserved for weapons school instructors.
4. Dept head tour: 2-3 years back in a squadron (assuming you DH screen) If you don't get a competitive FITREP (#1 or 2 EP) out of this tour, you won't screen for command and might not make O-5.
5. Second shore tour: 2-3 years, endless possibilities, but usually staff somewhere (DC, Millington, etc).
6. If you screen for command (big if), you'll do your XO/CO tours ~3 years.
7. After that, back to shore, probably staff.

Well, that should get you through the first 20 years for your career - the rest you'll figure out along the way. I know it's a rough guide, but you get the picture. Very different from SWO/SUBS.

Brett

 

[fc2spyguy]

Yes, the thread is closed, but you are still able to read it and find answers to your question. I came up with 32 responses.

Actually, if you click on that link it won't take you to a thread. Just tried it.

 

[The Chief]

Yeah, dude. I started a post in response, then realized that it would have taken me 30 minutes to do your question justice. You can search out the basics, then come back here for details/minutiae.Good times,Brett

Here you go Cougar, this should round out your question.

Just for the record, the aviation career path is completely different from surface or sub guys. I'll summarize:
1. First sea tour: 3 years in an operational squadron.
2. First shore tour: 2-3 years ashore in a wide variety of flying and non-flying billets.
3. Disassociated sea tour: 2-3 years usually staff or ships company meaning you likely won't be flying. Some billets for "Super JO" to go back to a squadron, but usually reserved for weapons school instructors.
4. Dept head tour: 2-3 years back in a squadron (assuming you DH screen) If you don't get a competitive FITREP (#1 or 2 EP) out of this tour, you won't screen for command and might not make O-5.
5. Second shore tour: 2-3 years, endless possibilities, but usually staff somewhere (DC, Millington, etc).
6. If you screen for command (big if), you'll do your XO/CO tours ~3 years.
7. After that, back to shore, probably staff.
Well, that should get you through the first 20 years for your career - the rest you'll figure out along the way. I know it's a rough guide, but you get the picture. Very different from SWO/SUBS.
Brett

And as a post script: One definition of Leadership is getting people to voluntarily do things they might no otherwise want to do.

Real as it gets.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

If you have to ask if you should go aviation or subs...go subs, seriously.

I don't recall him asking that.

 

[cougar23]

Thanks Chief. THAT's the kind of specific info I was looking for.

I still have one question tho, what do u mean by "disassociated sea tour" but without flying? I thought if you went to see you'd be in a squad flying?? Obviously I was wrong. What exactly is a "disassociated sea tour"??

Thanks again for your good info in your first response.

 

[Jeff29]

Didn't Cougar turn in his wings? (sorry, I just couldn't help myself)

 

[Physicx]

Is it typical to be out of the cockpit 6 out of the 20 years?And how hard is it to go to Topgun? I would imagine its competive.

 

[The Chief]

What exactly is a "disassociated sea tour"??

In the dissacociated sea tour you are attached to Ships Company or assigned to a Staff aboard the Ship. Usually does not involve flying, but in some instance you may be able to get in some flight time.

 

[Jeff29]

And how hard is it to go to Topgun?

Was that to me?

 

[USN99]

This is way down range

When do you get first command of a squadron, carrier wing, etc? What are the general responsibilties of aviation officers at the different ranks and command positions?

I would not want to discourage anyone regarding aviation command. It's the best job in the world. However, if some young Cougar is at the point where they are just trying to decide if they want subs or aviation, then I sincerely suggest that command either not be part of their decision making equation or it gets a low weight.

I would strongly recommend that this Cougar get the sub vs. aviation question answered first and foremost. If you choose wrong, you can kiss off command or possibly even promotion. If you choose a warfare community that you find out that you just don't like, it seems problematic that you will find the sort of professional satisfaction which would propel you to excel. In fact, you might just finally resign. If you choose the one you really like, then you will be motivated to excel 24/7. If that is the case, then your promotions will take care of themselves because you'll be doing your job well. If those who would be sitting on your command selection boards (other aviators) catch your act, then you'll have a better chance to be selected for command (which is an admin selection not a legislatively prescribed promotion board). FYI - If you get aviation command, your selection rate to O-6 is virtually 100%. If not, virtually 0%.

Aviation command percentages vary by community with the VP guys having about the lowest and the single-seat tacair guys having the highest. But don't let the raw statistics of number of ensigns entering each community vs number of COs selected each year discourage you. If you choose the aircraft you like, then what I said earlier will apply; you'll do well if you choose what you like.

It's exceedingly difficult to make an informed choice about subs or aviation unless you've had the opportunity to get onboard, stay several weeks, and look around; ask questions of officers in each community. That is why I am such a steadfast proponent of the value of long summer cruises. I did my 1/C cruise in the Gulf (that earlier one) in wartime on a surface ship and thought this was almost as good as, well you know. :tongue2_1 Then I realized that while being a SWO in wartime was fun, all wars eventually end (at least the conventional ones). So being a SWO in peacetime seemed a lot less desireable. So I chose aviation and am darn glad I chose correctly. I also chose the aircraft type I liked and indeed got command. But when I was a Midn, I never imagined I would make it past O-4.

 

[cougar23]

OK, I appreciate that advice, I wasn't trying to get ahead of myself. But as I posted on another thread, I'm not a MIDN, and no NROTC near except at Tulane 6 hours away, and I'm currently attending a university I love. That does rule out the change for 1/C cruises tho, thus so far all my info on life int he communities has come from on here and the few Midns I met when I visited the Academy two years ago and still talk with.

Just judging from what I've heard so far, and based on my own personality, I'm confused because I'm 99.9% sure I'd be happy in either community. Thus, the problem