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Circling Missed Approach

picklesuit

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
Okay senior guys/IP's...I have a question. The "dreaded" circling missed approach. I have had two techniques taught in the last two flights, both vastly different.

First, I flew the GPS 13 to Kleberg County, and proceeded to circle to 31. After rolling on final for 31 the IP directed me to go missed. I cleaned up/climbed away, and tried to fly direct to point IPHOP. I had turned to the landing runway and then was complying with "the intent" of the missed approach, but the IP directed me to do a 180 and hit heading 134 before turning back to the north to IPHOP (follow the "worm trail") Basically an "S" curve to go north. His argument was that the intent of the approach was to get you to 1800 going south before turning north, and my contention was that I was covered by the 1.7 mile ring around the airfield and as long as I got to the 2000 I was good. I took his instruction and went with it, flying my next missed as he showed me. (see attached 05740G13.pdf)

So today my partner is flying the Tacan-A to Rockport/Aransas County with the intent to circle to 14, making left downwind/base traffic. He had overflown the field, proceeded out bound perpendicular 15 seconds, and then made his downwind turn (now heading 320 on the downwind for 14) prior to turning base the IP (different than mine from the previous scenario) directed him to go missed ( "you just went IFR") and he turned left to the landing runway (14) and tried to continue with the climbing left turn to 360 to then proceed to the CRP 045 at 16 dme (COPAN) the IP took the plane, turned him back to the right, saying he had already passed 360 on the initial bid to the landing runway so he was now clear to proceed direct COPAN, no need to do a left 270 to head North. So basically not following the "worm trail" but using protected airspace to get to his altitude and go. (see other attachment)

When we got back to the debrief I brought up the two different techniques with him. His argument closely resembled mine, that as long as I was in protected airspace and was complying with the intent of the approach: "go North and hold here" I was good. He told me to fill out the orange sheet so it will be brought up at the next IP meeting...

So I throw it to the wolves, what do you take as the proper interpretation of the circling missed approach?

Pickle

PS I am looking for some senior pilot input here, not nuggetology "my primary instructor said xyz", no offense guys.
 

Attachments

  • 05740G13.pdf
    204.2 KB · Views: 90
  • 00991VDTA.pdf
    219.2 KB · Views: 65
Mumbles

Mumbles

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
Pick..

I havn't done circling approaches in a while... but I would think that as long as you are in the protected airspace and you are cleared for the approach and are not nordo....if you remain in the protected airspace, you should be good to go...."worm trail" be damned!!
 
insanebikerboy

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
A missed from a circling is basically turning as required towards the landing runway and then continuing the turn to establish yourself on the missed approach procedure. I seem to remember the FAR/AIM saying something about the turns will be different depending on where you go missed at on the circling, but if you follow the missed procedure you'll be fine on obstacle clearance.
 
HAL Pilot

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
GPS 13 @ Kingsville - Climb straight ahead on the 134 heading to 1800 feet and then a right climbing turn to 2000 feet. You do exactly what it says following the worm trail. Same thing if you go missed prior to the MAP.

Tacan A @ Rockport - I agree with your friend. You turn back toward the field to establish yourself on the 360 heading outbound for the radial intercept. You always turn back towards the field to stay within protected airspace, which in this case is the radius over the field associated with the aircraft category (probably A, B or C / 1.3, 1.5 or 1.7 NM if you are in primary like I think).
 
BACONATOR

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
HAL Pilot said:
GPS 13 @ Kingsville - Climb straight ahead on the 134 heading to 1800 feet and then a right climbing turn to 2000 feet. You do exactly what it says following the worm trail. Same thing if you go missed prior to the MAP.

Tacan A @ Rockport - I agree with your friend. You turn back toward the field to establish yourself on the 360 heading outbound for the radial intercept. You always turn back towards the field to stay within protected airspace, which in this case is the radius over the field associated with the aircraft category (probably A, B or C / 1.3, 1.5 or 1.7 NM if you are in primary like I think).
Click to expand...

Well since he mentioned his "partner" and the fact that I know, he is in advanced multi. ;)
 
scoober78

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
insanebikerboy said:
A missed from a circling is basically turning as required towards the landing runway and then continuing the turn to establish yourself on the missed approach procedure. I seem to remember the FAR/AIM saying something about the turns will be different depending on where you go missed at on the circling, but if you follow the missed procedure you'll be fine on obstacle clearance.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the things that missed approach procedures are based on...200 ft/nm ROC, missed approach commenced at the MAP etc...You must comply with the missed approach procedure with those stipulations in mind. In your example...prior tom commencing any turn south of the runway, you must reach an appropriate altitude to be in compliance. Let's say you go missed at the approach end of runway 31. Because the runway itself is 1NM long, you must be no lower than 740 feet prior to turning south. That 740 number comes from the MDA for the approach to 13 (540 feet) coupled with the TERPS required 200 ft/nm climb from the missed approach point. If you were higher than 740 feet, a climbing direct route to IHPOP was correct...if you weren't, then you would be required to circle overhead, turning towards the field until you met the appropriate altitude to commence the worm trail. Here are the applicable sections of the AIM.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap5/aim0504.html
Section 5-4-21

EDIT

Same deal for your partner...if he was lower than 800 feet (MDA) + 200 feet/NM then he would be required to make the turn as he intended...if he was higher then the IP was right. It's all about altitude and distance from the MAP on a circling missed.
 
scoober78

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
insanebikerboy said:
Unless I'm just reading it wrong, isn't that what I said? Keep turning towards the landing runway (back towards the airport) and then continue to turn to establish yourself on the missed approach procedure.
Click to expand...

Nope...you're good. I only meant to elaborate about when you are "established" on the track. If you go missed in an odd position, sometimes an extra turn is required based on altitude only. Because the OP didn't talk at all about altitude in the post, I thought it was worth bringing up. You were 100% about track.
 
picklesuit

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
Thanks all...now if only the damned weather would cooperate and I could fly more than twice a week (why can't I practice instrument flight in IFR conditions? :icon_smil)
Stupid Sigmets
 
abracadabra11

abracadabra11

Member
HAL Pilot said:
GPS 13 @ Kingsville - Climb straight ahead on the 134 heading to 1800 feet and then a right climbing turn to 2000 feet. You do exactly what it says following the worm trail. Same thing if you go missed prior to the MAP.

Tacan A @ Rockport - I agree with your friend. You turn back toward the field to establish yourself on the 360 heading outbound for the radial intercept. You always turn back towards the field to stay within protected airspace, which in this case is the radius over the field associated with the aircraft category (probably A, B or C / 1.3, 1.5 or 1.7 NM if you are in primary like I think).
Click to expand...
I agree with this response completely.


OttoWrote8 said:
HOLY SHIT! Can you say "0-0"??? Props to those guys. That would take some big brass ones...
Click to expand...
I don't know if I'm giving them any props...isn't that a CAT IIIC approach where the a/c autopilot flies it down to the deck and lands?
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
OttoWrote8 said:
HOLY SHIT! Can you say "0-0"??? Props to those guys. That would take some big brass ones...
Click to expand...

I imagine that's not all that uncommon in the airlines, where they have the equipment to shoot those approaches.

Brett
 
FrankTheTank

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
Brett327 said:
I imagine that's not all that uncommon in the airlines, where they have the equipment to shoot those approaches.

Brett
Click to expand...

Depends on the Airline, Airplane and Aircrew... All three must be certified and current to conduct CAT III operations... Many are not.. But yes many are... Depending on needs (Majors, Express Cargo, Places of common low visibilty, etc) I think most regionals are CAT II but I could be wrong...

All we have is CAT IIIA w/out rollout control or CATIIIB W/rollout control.. Not sure what CAT IIIC requirements are ???

Our lowest mins are 600 RVR (B727 & A300/310) and 300 RVR (B757, DC-10 & MD-10/11)
 
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