Coming soon to a runway near you: Traffic lights

[a2b2c3]

Seems someone thought up a "solution":

http://blogs.abcnews.com/e_scapes/2008/07/red-light-green.html

Anyone care to explain how this is any different than tower clearing you to take off? Now instead of just clearing you, they turn the light green too! Can you say waste of money?

 

[nzachman]

I don't think that the lighting is tower controlled. It seems like it is operated like a VASI where it recognizes aircraft on the ground or in the sky. The new system doesn't seem like a bad idea, though I agree that it is unnecessary and yet another thing for pilots to worry about.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Runway Incursions are the big thing with the FAA right now... At high density airports with multiple runways and taxiways and similar callsigns, it can get very confusing.. Set in some weather, fatigue, currency and a host of other variables it is easy to get 'CONFUSED' and every little bit of S.A. can go a long way... We are not always on our A game and some folks just don't have an A game or B game for that matter..

 

[webmaster]

I have operated from fields that have had similar devices. In fact Kbay has lights set up to flash and warn pilots if the gates are up, and cars are driving across the runway (Mokapu Road). It is one more item in the scan, that you should be doing anyways. Last thing I want is a runway incursion while I am on the roll or landing. Edited post: As boom said, air traffic density is way up, and many times both the aircrews and the controllers aren't on their A game.

For what its worth, if you AREN'T skeptical of directions and clearances given to you, and double check them, you are more than likely going to get yourself and your crew killed, or damage an aircraft in your career. I have recently had 4 instances of ATC doing their best to kill me in the terminal environment, one resulted in a HATR from me and the ATC controller getting fired, and the others involved some heated conversations on the ground afterwards. Good SA, scan, CRM and the associated decision making, ie, "Did what the controller say make sense?" is what it is all about... and to steal from A4s: BELIEVE IT!

John

 

[Giggles]

Well, I think the issue at JFK was kind of blow out of proportion by the media; along with many other things. The media says that it was a stresfull situation, but If you listen to the audio of the controllers from the incident they dont sound that stressed (The planes I believe were not that close). But I agree with the system to be installed at aiports, in conjunction with clearances of course, that has high density traffic like JFK where they are using perpendicular runways for T/O and Landing.

 

[A4sForever]

.... cars are driving across the runway (Mokapu Road)...

That would be ME ... watch out, P-3 weenies ...

 

[Gatordev]

So you have a green light telling you to take off? Sounds like every day at the boat, to me.

That would be ME ... watch out, P-3 weenies ...

Seriously. Not only do they want the WHOLE pattern, but they need the WHOLE runway, too? Amateurs...

 

[A4sForever]

Runway incursions are as old as the airplane.

The BEST way to prevent becoming one and becoming the resultant statistic is to ALWAYS listen/monitor the appropriate frequencies, GET POSITIVECLEARANCE to cross/enter applicable runways/taxiways and then LOOK BOTH WAYS down the runway and into the approach/departure corridors ... ALWAYS KEEP YOUR HEAD ON A SWIVEL!!! Both airborne and on terra firma ... and we'll just assume for the sake of argument that you KNOW where you are in the air/on the airport.

I've only been saved from embarrassment/disaster by ATC ONCE in nearly 40 years of aviation ... that's as in one time .... however, I and my crews have saved OURSELVES from the same embarrassment/disaster countless times .... as in many, many times ...

YOU are you own "best" defense .... it's never been any different.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I'm sure it pisses controllers off, but I've always called when I was approaching a perpendicular runway when taxiing and asked "understand cleared to cross runway X". They can make a mistake as much as me - as much as they think they don't/can't.

 

[A4sForever]

..... I've always called when I was approaching a perpendicular runway when taxiing and asked "understand cleared to cross runway X"....

Ditto -- and things can (and do) change, and the tower/ground can (and do) screw things up. If they get irritated at having to repeat a clearance to cross -- so what?? That's what they get paid for ...

I'm ESPECIALLY "alert" if the "crossing clearance" was received early or significantly "earlier" in the taxi clearance -- again, asking for an "understand, still cleared, etc." follow-up as I approach the cross-duty runway -- all the while monitoring FREQs and having head(s) on swivel(s).

It's the little things that count.

 

[A4sForever]

Well, I think the issue at JFK was kind of blow out of proportion by the media; along with many other things. The media says that it was a stresfull situation, but If you listen to the audio of the controllers from the incident they dont sound that stressed....

Hard to tell w/out being there -- but in general terms: a civilian airliner wave-off/go-around is ALWAYS stressful from a pain-in-the-ass standpoint and it's always an "undesirable" event even when it is a "desired" evolution for a given point in time.

JFK in particular is always assholes & elbows -- especially during peak periods, bad WX, and when the wind blows ... i.e., nearly always . Too much traffic on approach and on departure and on the ground, goofy approaches and departures, goofy charts, many aircraft w/ "bad English" in the cockpit, and sometimes less than "sterling" ATC help ... it IS New York City, ya bum !! :icon_wink

I was ecstatic when I became senior enough to bid trips w/ no JFK built into them.

As far as the ground lights referenced in the article -- I'm all for them; especially in/around busy airports. They would be "nice" in many airports I've operated out of -- i.e., they are GREAT in Singapore where they have taken it to the "N'th degree" -- even to the point of progressive taxi lights all the way to your gate after landing. A class act on the part of Singapura, the Lion City (probably tigers instead of lions ) -- and especially appreciated when you're tired and it's been a loooooong day and you just want to go to the hotel and unwind w/ a cold Singha beer.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Can you say waste of money?

The voice of experience?

NOT a waste of money but a pretty good idea in my opinion. Big addition to SA, especially at a busy airport with a busy tower frequency and aircraft having similiar call signs (for example, I may be Hawaiian 147 and there is also a Hawaiian 247 and a Hawaiian 347 on freq too.)