Contractors getting own Air Forces ??

[Capt Morgan's]

August 27, 2007: Blackwater U.S.A. is buying Super Tucano light combat aircraft from the Brazilian manufacturer Embraer.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20070827.aspx

How do you suppose they are going to pull off the logistics of this? i.e. who is going to supply them with the AG munitions, runways, base of operations etc...

How are they going to maintain separation from US aircraft operating in the same area while avoiding being considered a "hostile"? While they are a private company and it is well within their rights to own/operate whatever they want I would think this is getting a bit close to the line. Having civilian modified helicopters for use in combat operations is one thing but to have an outright military designed aircraft for the sole purpose of combat operations seems to be nudging into the AF/Navy CAS role just a bit much to me.

Best example I can think of for where I am going with this is the two AF colonels and the guy in the suburban that was recently on here in a different thread.

My understanding of the general scope of what they are doing in Iraq is dignitary protection work, what do you need a CAS aircraft to support that.

Granted there are lots of places in the world that they operate and could use this anywhere but the last part of the article seems to clearly indicate they tend to use it in Iraq?


** It has been a while since I looked closely into what they and other contractors are actually doing day to day in Iraq so if I am way off then so be it, but my opinion "security contractors" should not need a private air force of their own. **

 

[mmx1]

A light turboprop like the Tucano or an AT-6 is ideal for COIN, especially for local security forces that lack the logistical support for more complex aircraft like helicopters. They generally have longer loiter time, greater payload, and easier maintenance than a helicopter of comparable cost.

What difference is there between a Tucano, which is a trainer equipped to drop bombs, and a UH-1 or MD-500 equipped to carry armament?

 

[hscs]

Well, you need CAS a/c for protection, and it isn't going to come from our jets or gunships.

 

[mmx1]

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/08/blackwater-buys.html

According to janes (can't copy paste), they're acquiring one for training purposes. I wouldn't necessarily blow this out of proportion, though it would be a real handy CAS platform.

 

[mmx1]

Link to Janes article

JDW - Blackwater seeks to acquire Super Tucano

Dunno if it's subscription only or if it's just because I'm accessing it via my university (yes, I'm on leave and in a library...I'm a dork, I know it).

Interesting tidbit: the DoD has rented 6 OV-1's, but is not saying where they're being used.

 

[Capt Morgan's]

A light turboprop like the Tucano or an AT-6 is ideal for COIN, especially for local security forces that lack the logistical support for more complex aircraft like helicopters. They generally have longer loiter time, greater payload, and easier maintenance than a helicopter of comparable cost.

What difference is there between a Tucano, which is a trainer equipped to drop bombs, and a UH-1 or MD-500 equipped to carry armament?

Like I said I am all for them running their business however they want but what I see as a potential problem will be, them "accidentally" dropping a 500 pounder on a group of innocents (yes I know that is a pointless comment in Iraq) or a group of people who were mistaken for someone else.

Even worse, when a group of their suburbans drives through somewhere and they come under fire and roll in with thier a/c and start putting rounds towards our guys in an effort to cover their own.

With UH-1 or MD's you are much closer to the scene and have a bit more time to assess it is what I am thinking.

30-40 kts is much different scene then 150+

I guess overall my conscern will be some blue on blue because in the heat of the moment are they going to talk to us and vice versa, or just call in their own support groups.

 

[UMichfly]

It's funny that this thread showed up because I'm reading a very detailed book about the history and purpose of Blackwater. The co-founder/CEO has a strong desire to make Blackwater a replacement for a large portion of the military. I think acquiring an air component is a logical next step for them, although I don't like the idea of them being a replacement for regular military forces.

 

[Capt Morgan's]

What difference is there between a Tucano, which is a trainer equipped to drop bombs, and a UH-1 or MD-500 equipped to carry armament?

The difference that I am referring to is between a UH-1 with a M134 or M60 vs a Tucano with a 500 lb bomb, rocket pods etc.. with a much larger collateral damage effect.

 

[hscs]

Who says that the helos are running around at 30-40 kts.....

 

[Capt Morgan's]

Who says that the helos are running around at 30-40 kts.....

Not saying that is a typical speed but if you can slow down a fixed wing to that speed and stay in the air and in controllable flight...

Please show me how


Overall I think you have a better vantage point from a helo then from fixed wing because if needed you can slow down and get closer to what is going on.

 

[Hozer]

I know guys love the SPAD, but a f-ing turbo Mustang (okay, Piper Enforcer)! If Blackwater buys a shitload of these, I'm in!

 

[Gatordev]

Due to some OpSec issues, the thread has been closed. The thread still exists since the info is already in public domain and so another thread won't get started.