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Dropping Wings/Leaving the MV-22 Community

Solo22GS

New Member
I am writing this to get some sound boarding and see if my feelings/sentiments are valid.

Myself and my peers graduated flight school (took us four years due to covid) about three years ago. After the MV-22 FRS we got sent to the West Coast and all sat at MAG (headquarters) for about 6 months, at this point we all picked up Captain. After which we were assigned our fleet squadron, many of us once again not flying for several more months. After being in the squadron for two years now, myself and many others are trying to find ways out of the squadron and or drop our wings.

Since flight school, we have averaged roughly 4-hours per month. We have all required flight time waivers every year we have been in the fleet. (Less and 50 hours in a year) This includes the MV-22 grounding for several months. My peer group has never been prioritized, and now the squadron is 75% low hour co-pilots. The plane is constantly breaking and we are unable to effectively gain traction on getting any of these Co-pilots hours. This feels incredibly unsafe and we all feel that we are worse pilots now than we when we finished flight school.

Our peers in other squadrons have received many quals and some peers in other TMS have gone incredibly far and have twice as many hours as us. I would not be surprised when we deploy that we will remain co-pilots and peers from other squadrons will join us as qualed instructors because they got lucky with the squadron they got sent to.

This is all quite demoralizing, I no longer enjoy flying, and being thrown in LLL flights with low currency/proficiency is just short of terrifying. I no longer know if sticking it out for another year to make TAC is worth it. It also doesn't make sense for me to be working 50-60 hour weeks just to receive 5-10 flight hours a month. When I could get a more cush job or which would allow me to pursue something different or even fly Cessnas on the side to build hours.

We are all very unhappy and are at the point of dropping our wings or looking for B-Billets.

What are the consequences of such actions? Are we being overdramatic? I feel like we've tried to make this work, but at what point do you just cut your losses and move on with your life?
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
May I ask what you mean by peers in other squadrons? Are those peers in V-22 squadrons or different platforms?

Also, is flight instructor not an option?
 

gparks1989

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Put on your big boy pants and either drop your wings, resign your commission and get the hell out of my Marine Corps or STFU.
JFC what shitty advice. OP is flagging concerns about safety (among other issues) stemming from the lack of flight hours, not complaining that it isn't a rose garden.

Anywho, I know little about the Marine Corps besides anecdotal stories of suck such as yours. I'd be concerned that turning in your wings would set you up for equally shitty jobs, without the benefit of flying even a little bit. Also as dumb as this sounds, file a shit ton of ASAPs. I've been assured they help move the needle on things, so can't hurt?
 

mmx1

Woof!
pilot
Contributor
Couple of different things you’re entangling here.

The community seems to be in a rough patch (haven’t heard that before). Yea, it seems unsafe to fly LLL with low proficiency and currency. What’s your DOSS got to say about it?

If you don’t want to fly your TMS for whatever reason, fine. Won’t be the first to do so.

You want to get a cushier job by dropping your wings? lol good luck

You want to drop your wings to spend money flying Cessna’s on the weekend? Not a smart move.
 

mmx1

Woof!
pilot
Contributor
Your career progression is a hard conversation you need to have with your XO. Making TAC keeps some doors open, like flight school. Going to a b billet before you make TAC, I think likely means you don’t fly a gray aircraft ever again.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
I agree with @mmx1, stick with it and grind out what hours you can. I can’t speak to the -22 issues, I know they’ve been a pain in the Corps ass, but walking away from this mission will not land you in a better mission - especially in the Corps. Keep ploptering…it is bound to get better (you can put that on a patch!).
 

FLGUY

“Technique only”
pilot
Contributor
Put on your big boy pants and either drop your wings, resign your commission and get the hell out of my Marine Corps or STFU.
Yeah, No. I love my Marine brethren, but this is the “Ra-Ra” “embrace the suck” bullshit that is helpful to nobody in the USMC. Nobody should be expected to suffer for sufferings sake, and it isn’t wrong for someone on the receiving end of the suck to vocalize said frustrations, especially when safety is on the line.

To the OP: My 2 cents? Stick it out. I have USMC buddies in my VT squadron who left the fleet at 450 hours of total time (with 50 simulator to make 500) who are doing just fine now. VTs, and station pilot jobs are possible for you. Both can be used to dig yourself out of the hole that the V-22 issues have put you into. Keep your chin up! Turning in your wings will only make things worse.
 

Waveoff

Per Diem Mafia
None
Does the marine corps have an equivalent of JOTS? For the navy it’s a JO forum where you (or chosen representatives) get direct face time with the 3 star air boss and bring up issues and concerns; everything from hours concerns, platform issues, hangar problems, etc.
 

Mos

Well-Known Member
None
Given that others are saying here that dropping wings probably wouldn't be in your best interest, I'm curious whether you and your peers are considering it as a form of protest to get attention of the higher ups to your platform's issues?
 

j_c_m_1999

New Member
This is an impossible question to answer but…. how does this end? The marines have an inventory of ~300 aircraft which have all these issues- safety, etc. If these issues are that bad then how does it make sense to continue training 50-100 pilots/year in the aircraft? And with the stand downs what happens with the platform as a whole?

If I were a marine corps pilot coming out of primary would I be crazy if I didn’t put tilt rotors last?

The thing I find interesting is that the army choose the Bell V-280 to replace the Blackhawk. I guess the army is confident that these issues can be resolved with a “2nd gen” tiltrotor.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
This is an impossible question to answer but…. how does this end? The marines have an inventory of ~300 aircraft which have all these issues- safety, etc. If these issues are that bad then how does it make sense to continue training 50-100 pilots/year in the aircraft? And with the stand downs what happens with the platform as a whole?

If I were a marine corps pilot coming out of primary would I be crazy if I didn’t put tilt rotors last?

The thing I find interesting is that the army choose the Bell V-280 to replace the Blackhawk. I guess the army is confident that these issues can be resolved with a “2nd gen” tiltrotor.

The Osprey isn’t the only platform to suffer manpower or maintenance issues in the last decade. Ask any Hornet or Shitter pilot from 2010-2017.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
This is an impossible question to answer but…. how does this end? The marines have an inventory of ~300 aircraft which have all these issues- safety, etc. If these issues are that bad then how does it make sense to continue training 50-100 pilots/year in the aircraft? And with the stand downs what happens with the platform as a whole?

If I were a marine corps pilot coming out of primary would I be crazy if I didn’t put tilt rotors last?

The thing I find interesting is that the army choose the Bell V-280 to replace the Blackhawk. I guess the army is confident that these issues can be resolved with a “2nd gen” tiltrotor.
Of course we can’t speak to what issues the V-280 might have, the rotor/engine tilt system is entirely different.
 
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