Dual Citizenship

[osulwang]

Hi All,

I am in the process of applying to USMC OCS. I was told by my recruiter that you have to renounce your other citizenship when you join, however he also said he has heard of people who kept their dual citizenship while serving in the military. My other citizenship is Australian. For security purposes, I don't believe it poses any real threat. I received it when I was young before coming to this country. I possess a passport, but I don't use it. I am willing to renounce it if I must, but if I don't have to part with it I would rather not. It might be useful in the future...

 

[phrogpilot73]

Here's the deal, you're required to renounce your citizenship. Period. However, the country that you're renouncing may not recognize it. I went to flight school with a guy who renounced his citizenship to England, then after he was done with flight school, he merely requested a new passport from England.

 

[Flash]

Exercising any of the rights or privileges of your other citizenship after renouncing and while on active duty can cause serious issues if you go up for a higher clearance, that includes getting a passport.

My advice, after renouncing citizenship don't do anything with it until out of the military when you can likely pick up where you left off with your cousins down under.

 

[osulwang]

Hmm, thanks for the answers guys. Some things to consider...

 

[Deleted member 31917]

Does anyone know when renouncing of the other citizenship has to occur? Does it have to occur before an FS? I mean, I'm in grad school out of the country right now, and if I have to announce my citizenship before the FS, then it'll be a pain to have to submit visa requirements while I'm completing the last couple of terms or so. Because I still plan to be taking some classes before actually leaving for OCS, in the case that I do get accepted.

 

[phrogpilot73]

So, after one of our pilots had his clearance revoked (he's 3 years from retirement) because he was maintaining dual citizenship (Mexico & US), I found out some very interesting things.

You don't have to renounce your citizenship. You do have to be a US Citizen, yes. You have to be WILLING to renounce citizenship of another country, and you can exercise no rights or priveleges thereof for the duration of your service.

What he had to do was write a letter explaining his reasoning behind wanting to maintain his Mexican citizenship. His was simple, according to Mexican law - even though his daughters were born in the US, they are Mexican citizens (because of his citizenship). If he renounces his Mexican citizenship (which Mexico recognizes), his daughters would have their Mexican citizenship revoked. He explained that he wanted them to be able to make the choice if they wanted to maintain/renounce their own citizenship later on in their life. If he renounced his, he would effectively have made the decision for them. He also stated that he did not (nor has not for the duration of his service) maintain a Mexican passport, demonstrtating that he did not intend to exercise the rights or priveleges of Mexican citizenship. He also said in his letter that if the US were to go to war with Mexcio, he would renounce his citizenship and defend his adopted home.

He was granted his clearance.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

the rules on this have changed as far as NRC is concerned and the steps needed to renounce vary depending on the country that a person maintains dual citizenship with, but the rules from NRC is very clear, you don't renounce you don't come in.

just a few years ago we had an E-5 who was a dual citizen with canada, I actually caught it during a review of security clearances, he pled his case saying he wanted to maintain dual for family reasons, he was told no and clearance revoked and moved to a job that didn't require a clearance.

 

[phrogpilot73]

My example only happened less than 6 months ago. He did the research and found the instruction that said you had to be willing to renounce. As for entry, I can see with the current downsizing why everyone would have to renounce - but for someone that's already there, as long as they are willing to renounce - they can maintain a clearance.

The big difference might have been your E-5 may never explicitly said that he was willing to renounce? Guapo put that specific wording in his letter to DOCNAF probably a half dozen times.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

My example only happened less than 6 months ago. He did the research and found the instruction that said you had to be willing to renounce. As for entry, I can see with the current downsizing why everyone would have to renounce - but for someone that's already there, as long as they are willing to renounce - they can maintain a clearance.

The big difference might have been your E-5 may never explicitly said that he was willing to renounce? Guapo put that specific wording in his letter to DOCNAF probably a half dozen times.

Not saying things are different when on AD, but NRC upon guidance from higher authority and subsequent change to the recruiting manuals will not allow anyone to come in without renouncing, there have been several updates in the past year (I have actually lost track), each one getting more strict, the last was distributed last week.

 

[Jim123]

FWIW, on this topic I had an SSO tell me things that showed basic misunderstanding of U.S. citizenship law (simple things that contradicted stuff that was spelled out the OPM manual, other things that contradicted U.S. Code). I'm not at all surprised to hear phrogpilot73's story about his squadronmate. Sometimes it pays to be able to cite chapter and verse because, to put it kindly, sometimes the people in a position of authority in this process are human and make mistakes too

There is an important distinctions here- simply being eligible for a security clearance (new or renewal) is one thing, but being recruited fresh into the military is another. The individual services have that prerogative when it comes to "original appointment as a commissioned officer." I'd be that's what's going on lately with Navy recruiting:

... NRC upon guidance from higher authority and subsequent change to the recruiting manuals...

and perhaps Marine recruiting too. If the individual services decide to set a more restrictive policy on dual citizenship for new recruits, then I wouldn't be surprised. (It's a safe assumption that their legal people reviewed things and gave the thumbs-up.)

Still, it's a good bet to figure out the whole story, but all of the above seems to add up.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

FWIW, on this topic I had an SSO tell me things that showed basic misunderstanding of U.S. citizenship law (simple things that contradicted stuff that was spelled out the OPM manual, other things that contradicted U.S. Code). I'm not at all surprised to hear phrogpilot73's story about his squadronmate. Sometimes it pays to be able to cite chapter and verse because, to put it kindly, sometimes the people in a position of authority in this process are human and make mistakes too

There is an important distinctions here- simply being eligible for a security clearance (new or renewal) is one thing, but being recruited fresh into the military is another. The individual services have that prerogative when it comes to "original appointment as a commissioned officer." I'd be that's what's going on lately with Navy recruiting:



and perhaps Marine recruiting too. If the individual services decide to set a more restrictive policy on dual citizenship for new recruits, then I wouldn't be surprised. (It's a safe assumption that their legal people reviewed things and gave the thumbs-up.)

Still, it's a good bet to figure out the whole story, but all of the above seems to add up.

I *believe* the reason all the guidance has been coming out recently is due to misunderstandings in the recent past, and that the OPM guidance was put out to all services.

 

[jcj]

This site has a nice compilation of DOHA appeal findings for denied clearances.

http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/

These are for DOD contractors, not active duty so there are some differences - but the principles and general adjudication rules are supposed to be the same.

There are some relevant Citizenship cases. Also, it's interesting to note how often financial irresponsibility is a factor...