Dual Designate vs Re-designate vs Pilot Physician

[vikingemand]

Flight doc here. Aspiring pilot living in a physician's body. I have networked over the last 8 months to figure out how to select for pilot training. This is an incredibly rare situation, I'm exceedingly clear on that. Most answers I have received from those in a position to make the decision have been negative.

I was told very recently that to plead my case I would need to find an enticing selling point. "Why should CNATRA fund my training?" The last guy to go through is the first AMDD ever in a new platform (either pilot > physician or physician > pilot). I am trying to find my niche argument vs trying something different altogether from AMDD. Things you should know:

1. I have been interested in military aviation for 25+ years. I have been interested in medicine since I did well in high school biology. I focused on medicine first...inexplicably.
2. I am a current active duty Navy flight surgeon.
3. I have read both OPNAVINST 1542.4E and AFI 11-405.
4. I will fly (less interested in back seating) essentially anything the DOD would allow me to (besides drones).
5. I am 29. I am 100% PQ/AA. I max the PRT. I have a Medical Corps EOAS of mid 2027.
6. I know of a handful of physicians who were denied AMDD because they were over the 32 age limit regardless of how good of an application.
7. If I am denied AMDD I am considering whatever path necessary to entirely redisgnate (no idea how this path works) or lateral tx to AF for PPP or Navy or AF OCS.

Q's:

Q1: Can anyone speak to the prevalanece of AMDD's in each navy platform currently? I've heard jets specifically is oversaturated.

Q2: What is the redisgnation process from any Navy officer to pilot? How common? Who should I speak to? Is this process much different for me because I am staff corps and not unrestricted line?

Q3: Does USN waive 32yo age requirement for anyone signing up off the street for line officer pilot training? What about prior service?

Q4: Would separating from medical corps and going to OCS be a break in service w/ a loss of rank or time in service etc?

Q5: Can the HPSP service commitment be transferred if I attempted to lateral to USAF or would USN not let me go until my EOAS?

Q6: Will USAF PPP and or line Pilot also waive age requirement for UPT up to 35? (I dont see this anywhere in AFI 11-405)

Q7: Are there any current or slated slots for UPT for phsycians attempting PPP?

Q8: Does US ANG ever waive the 32yo age requirement and do they ever sign people with no duties-involving-actual-control-of-A/C flight hours? (I will have a moderate amount of non-control hours as a two-tour USN FS by my EOAS)

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Flight doc here. Aspiring pilot living in a physician's body. I have networked over the last 8 months to figure out how to select for pilot training. This is an incredibly rare situation, I'm exceedingly clear on that. Most answers I have received from those in a position to make the decision have been negative.

I was told very recently that to plead my case I would need to find an enticing selling point. "Why should CNATRA fund my training?" The last guy to go through is the first AMDD ever in a new platform (either pilot > physician or physician > pilot). I am trying to find my niche argument vs trying something different altogether from AMDD. Things you should know:

1. I have been interested in military aviation for 25+ years. I have been interested in medicine since I did well in high school biology. I focused on medicine first...inexplicably.
2. I am a current active duty Navy flight surgeon.
3. I have read both OPNAVINST 1542.4E and AFI 11-405.
4. I will fly (less interested in back seating) essentially anything the DOD would allow me to (besides drones).
5. I am 29. I am 100% PQ/AA. I max the PRT. I have a Medical Corps EOAS of mid 2027.
6. I know of a handful of physicians who were denied AMDD because they were over the 32 age limit regardless of how good of an application.
7. If I am denied AMDD I am considering whatever path necessary to entirely redisgnate (no idea how this path works) or lateral tx to AF for PPP or Navy or AF OCS.

Q's:

Q1: Can anyone speak to the prevalanece of AMDD's in each navy platform currently? I've heard jets specifically is oversaturated.

Q2: What is the redisgnation process from any Navy officer to pilot? How common? Who should I speak to? Is this process much different for me because I am staff corps and not unrestricted line?

Q3: Does USN waive 32yo age requirement for anyone signing up off the street for line officer pilot training? What about prior service?

Q4: Would separating from medical corps and going to OCS be a break in service w/ a loss of rank or time in service etc?

Q5: Can the HPSP service commitment be transferred if I attempted to lateral to USAF or would USN not let me go until my EOAS?

Q6: Will USAF PPP and or line Pilot also waive age requirement for UPT up to 35? (I dont see this anywhere in AFI 11-405)

Q7: Are there any current or slated slots for UPT for phsycians attempting PPP?

Q8: Does US ANG ever waive the 32yo age requirement and do they ever sign people with no duties-involving-actual-control-of-A/C flight hours? (I will have a moderate amount of non-control hours as a two-tour USN FS by my EOAS)

The piece you keep failing to realize is your HPSP service obligation. The Navy just invested an F ton in your med school and just like for aviation and flight training you are very likely not going to be "released" into any other designator or military service until you complete that obligation.

Once that obligation is complete, between the age and years of commissioned service (YCS), it is a wash from the naval aviation community to send you to flight training, only to 2x FOS for O-4 (because you have zero aviation quals) and be sent home.

For the other services, suggest you reach out to them for options come mid-2027.

 

[vikingemand]

Appreciate the reply. The AMDD program is the end around for all your counter points, and it does happen. Just so so rarely. I understand that. Just trying to understand all angles.

Thanks

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Appreciate the reply. The AMDD program is the end around for all your counter points, and it does happen. Just so so rarely. I understand that. Just trying to understand all angles.

Thanks

You're still missing the point. You have a service obligation and possibly in a critical skillset where you're direly needed.

Here's a story from 2022, last person selected was 2022, before that 20 years ago. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/428410/cnatra-flight-surgeon-earns-wings-gold

 

[taxi1]

You're still missing the point.

I'm guessing he read your first post.

 

[TimeBomb]

What do you really want...squadron pilot, physician or dual designator? They're all different, and not really interchangeable. I get the sense that you really want to be a squadron pilot, and are looking to the dual designator as a way to scratch that itch. Dual designators, in my admittedly dated experience, are seen as neither fish nor fowl. The ones I knew ended up being utilized as physicians for the most part. There were just too many barriers to them functioning as a squadron pilot.

I knew several aviators who got out after their pilot training commitment and went to med school, then came back in, often as flight surgeons, but not always. That route was simpler than what you're trying to do for several reasons. I know of no one who has done the reverse...physician to URL aviator. Again, too many obstacles.

I can try to address your specific questions off-line if you'd like.

V/R

 

[taxi1]

I know of no one who has done the reverse...physician to URL aviator.

We had one come through Beeville back in 1991 or so. Civilian MD who kept it on the down-low and was a URL aviator trainee. Planned to eventually be a flying doc. Always wondered what happened to him.

 

[TimeBomb]

I should have been more specific. I was thinking about a straight up 2100 going to straight up 1310.
V/R

 

[Flash]

Here's a story from 2022, last person selected was 2022, before that 20 years ago. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/428410/cnatra-flight-surgeon-earns-wings-gold

And before then it had been a while, at least 10 years, so it seems to regularly become dormant.

What do you really want...squadron pilot, physician or dual designator? They're all different, and not really interchangeable. I get the sense that you really want to be a squadron pilot, and are looking to the dual designator as a way to scratch that itch. Dual designators, in my admittedly dated experience, are seen as neither fish nor fowl. The ones I knew ended up being utilized as physicians for the most part. There were just too many barriers to them functioning as a squadron pilot.

The one I went through the RAG with and was in @Brett327's squadron was I think utilized primarily as a pilot, Brett can confirm or not.

 

[Fallonflyr]

When I was in Beeville the base flight surgeon was also going through the flight syllabus and was winged. This was in the 80’s.

 

[Brett327]

And before then it had been a while, at least 10 years, so it seems to regularly become dormant.



The one I went through the RAG with and was in @Brett327's squadron was I think utilized primarily as a pilot, Brett can confirm or not.

He was primarily a pilot whose ground job was seeing patients in the clinic. Callsign: Nurse. He's now one of those creepy boutique plastic surgeons in the DFW Metroplex.

 

[pilot_man]

@vikingemand Dude, why?

I say that jokingly and I'm sure you have your own reasons but I don't think the grass is green enough to switch from your side to the other. If I were you, I would do a residency (if you haven't already), finish it and make $500,000+ / year immediately, and join a reserve squadron as their flight doc for your sport-flying fun. If you really need to, then get yourself an airplane and don't get too cocky or you could be another doctor with a airplane statistic.

I think a big difference between the 2 communities is the comradery you find in squadron life, but I'm here to tell you that stuff doesn't last forever for the pilot types. If you stay in you become isolated as CAG or worse as a ship XO / CO and if you get out you get to live the on the road life, telling your same life story to a different captain or FO every couple of days while on a trip. All while making half as what you could be earning as a doctor.

 

[zippy]

I’ve flown with a Captain at my legacy who is also a practicing physician… so it’s doable. MD mid week, flying weekend line…. Maybe more so on the outside than trickfucking the Navy system.

You should probably reach out to Danny Xu directly to get the gouge on how he was able to be the first person in 20 years to achieve what you’re trying to do.

 

[taxi1]

telling your same life story to a different captain or FO every couple of days

You should tell a different life story each time, even if it's a guy you've flown with before.

 

[Flash]

I’ve flown with a Captain at my legacy who is also a practicing physician… so it’s doable. MD mid week, flying weekend line…. Maybe more so on the outside than trickfucking the Navy system.

I don't get that, I suppose some folks prefer to stay busy but that seems a bit...much. I guess the piles of money the guy is making is pretty damn good though?