FAH/FAC revisited

[Screamtruth]

I have asked about this before, as it remains one of the most nagging questions from my TACP days. My brother is a USMC 2nd Lt, fresh out to the FMF, and we were discussing this, and I had no answer for him.

I understand the utilization of the FAH in a 9 line, but I cannot grasp how the pilot selects the heading and how he keeps the nose pointed towards the target. I know that there must be some type of targeting computer or such that keeps you referenced to the target, but how did they do this in lieu of that? I assume that your lateral offset distance from the original IP heading determines the proper choice of the FAH, but how can you calculate that on the fly?

Maybe this is why "the mark" is so important?

 

[Uncle Fester]

I'm pretty sure it's unclass, but is this really something to discuss on a public forum?

 

[skidkid]

It is relatively easy. Most of the F/W systems do all of that stuff for them but in the absence of those systems the jet hits an IP then flies on the offset side on a heading within the FAH given and looks for the mark or the target based on a talk on.

There is very little lateral offset from an IP it is merely a heading offset a jet basically flies either right or left of the line drawn from IP to target.

Noting classified or FOUO about it really.

 

[Screamtruth]

Thanks for the reply gents. I usually went with a FAH approved or stated from the FAC, and never really determined this aspect on my own. I pelted Frumby with enough questions as it was.


Primarily, to give a little more sight on the question, I was really asking from an older era point of view, i.e. Vietnam time frame..........referring to aircraft that may not have had the capability that we see today in FW birds. Was it done the same way. If this does push OPSEC, I will drop the issue.


S/F

 

[skidkid]

Cant speak too much to the TTPs "back in the day" But would surmise that the skill of the mark and the ability to deliver a solid talk on was much more crucial to CAS success than it is today.
IPS were very recognizable pieces of terrain and a heading was flown to the target looking for the mark or the bad guys based on talk ons.

 

[Dstar]

The pilot does not pick the FAH. The FAC picks the FAH based on friendlies and potential collateral damage for a long or short drop. Always ask the question if this bomb or missile goes long or short, what is it going to hit? The school, church, hospital, Mrs Jones' house or the CAAT section etc. The Air Officer and the FSC concur with the FAH and approve the 9 line. If a FAC(A) is involved, the same applies for final approval.

 

[picklesuit]

For us Squid types that don't know what the fuck y'all are talking about:
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...20Handout.doc+9-line&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Which leads to questions from me (see "Squid who doesn't know what the fuck y'all are talking about")

How does a "6 digit" grid work? I've heard about grid coordinates but all I know are Lat/Longs...

Thanks,
Pickle

 

[webmaster]

Save us from the NO-P... the rest of the P3 community knows what a 9 line is

.....

Which leads to questions from me (see "Squid who doesn't know what the fuck y'all are talking about").....

Thanks,
Pickle

Dill, focus on NATOPs and Job Aid, 9 line and other items are for after your 2P board.

 

[busdriver]

Think MGRS Pickle

 

[phrogpilot73]

How does a "6 digit" grid work? I've heard about grid coordinates but all I know are Lat/Longs...

6 digit grid = MGRS (Military Grid Reference System). Similar to UTM.

Basically the world is divided into blocks of 1000 meters. These blocks are identified by grid lines (north/south and east/west). This block is then further divided up (using a protractor) to arrive at a six/eight digit grid, which gives you down to 100 meters or 10 meters respectively. First three/four digits are your position with regards to a north/south grid line, second three/four digits are your position with regards to an east/west grid line. It's all very simple.

There's also 100,000 meter identifiers and grid zone designators involved, but you probably don't care about that. If you want to read more, check this out.

 

[PropAddict]

How does a "6 digit" grid work? I've heard about grid coordinates but all I know are Lat/Longs...

Here's the answer from another prop guy. I suspect someone who uses this regularly could explain better, but here's my take:

1. Divide globe into nice grids with evenly-sized square boxes.
2. Each box is on the base-ten system (it divides into ten parts; forget all that 60 degree, min, sec crap)
3. A point on the globe can be specified using just a string of #s.The first X numbers say how far horizontally, the second X numbers in string say how far vertically to go up to get to the point.
4. The more numbers in the string, the more precise the location. A 2 digit coordinate string would specify a 10 km box. A six digit coordinate specifies a point to 100m accuracy. Eight digits gives 10m accuracy. It's just how much you want to gnat's ass it.

Or just go here. They have pictures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grid_reference_system

 

[picklesuit]

Thanks guys! Now back to my hole...

 

[Screamtruth]

The pilot does not pick the FAH. The FAC picks the FAH based on friendlies and potential collateral damage for a long or short drop. Always ask the question if this bomb or missile goes long or short, what is it going to hit? The school, church, hospital, Mrs Jones' house or the CAAT section etc. The Air Officer and the FSC concur with the FAH and approve the 9 line. If a FAC(A) is involved, the same applies for final approval.

I was referring to how the pilot utilizes the FAH, especially since I have no grasp of things from the pilot's point of view. In regards to your reply, is the approval from the AO a must? I can see it's relevance in training, but if it is a hot, in your face, combat situation, does the FAC still have to rely on the approval from the battalion's AO? I understand the need for the company FST commander to be in the approval process, especially in a SEAD scenario, since I assume he would be co-located or at least in close proximity and comms with the FAC.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I was referring to how the pilot utilizes the FAH, especially since I have no grasp of things from the pilot's point of view. In regards to your reply, is the approval from the AO a must? I can see it's relevance in training, but if it is a hot, in your face, combat situation, does the FAC still have to rely on the approval from the battalion's AO? I understand the need for the company FST commander to be in the approval process, especially in a SEAD scenario, since I assume he would be co-located or at least in close proximity and comms with the FAC.

For the most part, yes - approval from the Air Officer is required. The reason is that the Company FAC may not know exactly where the remainder of the Battalion is operating, and may not know if the effects of the ordnance are going to be a problem. The AirO is going to be monitoring the TAD net (if able) and if not able is going to have it passed to him from the FAC. The approval process is usually pretty quick - if I could monitor TAD, my approval would come usually around the time the attack aircraft was at the IP. Immediate reattacks were generally up to the FAC, but we'd still keep track of it. When I got it relayed to me, approval would usually come before the "In" call.

 

[Screamtruth]

Understood.

Thanks for the reply Sir.