Females training for Infantry

[ea6bflyr]

Women in combat training; while this does not shock me, I'm surprised to learn that even if they complete the training, they currently will not be assigned as a Platoon Commander in combat.

Considering that the completion rate for this course is 25%, I consider the progress made noteworthy. BTW, I've met some tough-as-nails female Marine Officers in my day...and someone will make it through the course in time.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jul/02/2-female-marines-fail-officer-combat-test/

 

[jmcquate]

The article is confusing. Is this OCS, TBS, or Infantry School?

 

[joe dirt]

It's Infantry officers course, which is basically the post-TBS MOS school for infantry types.
The only female to make it through the first day is currently a student down here, heading up to Whiting soon.

 

[SynixMan]

I find it both scary, fascinating, and awesome that they are so willing to attrite people in IOC. Glad you still have to be hard as nails to lead Marines in combat.

Seems like we are unwilling to let people fail in aviation some times. The sunk cost argument carriers a lot of weight though.

 

[BackOrdered]

I find it both scary, fascinating, and awesome that they are so willing to attrite people in IOC. Glad you still have to be hard as nails to lead Marines in combat.

Seems like we are unwilling to let people fail in aviation some times. The sunk cost argument carriers a lot of weight though.

It's not that they are so willing or even trying to attrite anyone. The course is just that demanding on the body. One of my female Marine friend's body is a VA nightmare after her service in a non-combat MOS from just the routine PT. SheThat these women are throwing the towel in after day one is no surprise.

I fear what will happen if this continues and the powers that be "equalize" the standard. The Marine Corps prides itself on NEVER lowering the bar. Why anyone would even want to be a part of "that" after the fact and be proud of it is beyond me.

 

[zippy]

hat these women are throwing the towel in after day one is no surprise.

From what I understand they got washed out, not quit, on the first day. Not all jobs are created equal and not all individuals are well suited for those jobs. Fact of life. I've seen dudes who graduated IOC, and ranked pretty well, and did combat deployments to Afghanistan struggle through the VT land (and were retained vs getting washed out by the MATSG CO because of their background) while dudes who never would have made it through IOC smoked the program. Two way streets are everywhere.

 

[xj220]

From what I understand they got washed out, not quit, on the first day. Not all jobs are created equal and not all individuals are well suited for those jobs. Fact of life. I've seen dudes who graduated IOC, and ranked pretty well, and did combat deployments to Afghanistan struggle through the VT land (and were retained vs getting washed out by the MATSG CO because of their background) while dudes who never would have made it through IOC smoked the program. Two way streets are everywhere.

Like flying, you either have it or you don't.

 

[Spekkio]

I fear what will happen if this continues and the powers that be "equalize" the standard. The Marine Corps prides itself on NEVER lowering the bar. Why anyone would even want to be a part of "that" after the fact and be proud of it is beyond me.

ADM McRaven owed a report to Congress on this subject in late May. Anyone know his findings?

 

[Renegade One]

ADM McRaven owed a report to Congress on this subject in late May. Anyone know his findings?

One can only hope the report was short and sweet…something like:

"The entry and qualification standards for Navy Special Warfare have been validated, re-validated, are constantly reviewed, and have been proven over time. While they are admittedly arduous, they are neither excessive nor arbitrary, and have served the best interests of the nation for many, many decades. No changes are planned, expected or recommended."

Or words to that effect...

[Then probably 100+ pages of enclosures/attachments/tabs about the application/initial screening/assessment process, selection and BUD/S success and attrition rates…all of the above filtered and tabulated by year/ethnicity/age/commissioning source/prior rating/ASVAB correlations…well, you get the idea.]

 

[djj34]

What impresses me the most is that these ladies go through IOC knowing beforehand that they will simply move on to their originally assigned MOS school afterward. I know the two March class attendees, one was in my team at TBS, and I thought she would rock IOC. They both simply ran out of time on one of the events of the CET on the first day... unfortunate, for sure. Hopefully it goes better next time around.

 

[Renegade One]

Hopefully it goes better next time around.

As long as the standards remain the same…no argument. (Said a guy who NEVER had to do any of that stuff…).

 

[Sapper!]

My apologies for not staying entirely on topic. If you have not watched General Barrow's testimony to congress regarding women in combat, check it out.

I think what is lost on most is that even currently, all this change is about is allowing officers to be promoted to higher levels within the military ranks.

Also, being in danger =/= combat

 

[Spekkio]

So the only way to make Gen in the USA or USMC is to be an infantry, armor, or artillery officer?

 

[Renegade One]

So the only way to make Gen in the USA or USMC is to be an infantry, armor, or artillery officer?

Clearly, no. There are Army GOs in MOST MOSs…Engineers, TC, QM, Aviation…yadda yadda yadda. Plenty of opportunity for promotion and higher command within the existing swim lanes. But that's not good enough for the vocal few with a "higher agenda"…most of whom don't actually wear a uniform.

Marine Commandant isn't a "ground combat arms" officer either…any more than any other TBS graduate.

I think I understand that your comment was "rhetorical"/tongue-in-cheek. But is was a good discussion item.

 

[Spekkio]

One can only hope the report was short and sweet…something like:

"The entry and qualification standards for Navy Special Warfare have been validated, re-validated, are constantly reviewed, and have been proven over time. While they are admittedly arduous, they are neither excessive nor arbitrary, and have served the best interests of the nation for many, many decades. No changes are planned, expected or recommended."

Or words to that effect...

[Then probably 100+ pages of enclosures/attachments/tabs about the application/initial screening/assessment process, selection and BUD/S success and attrition rates…all of the above filtered and tabulated by year/ethnicity/age/commissioning source/prior rating/ASVAB correlations…well, you get the idea.]

I may have misinterpreted the meeting, as I thought the scope of the report covered all infantry type training.

Oh, and they wouldn't "lower" the physical standards, they would "adjust" them to the "appropriate metrics." But it's absolutely not "lowering" them.