Flying CWO or OCS SNA?

[millsra13]

I know this might a biased place to ask a question like this, but I'll give it a shot. I applied for the Navy Flying CWO program as a pilot and also to OCS as a 13900. The results should come out pretty close to each other (OCS being first). I don't want to jump the gun and get ahead of my self, but if the stars align just right and I get selected for both, would CWO be the wrong way to go?

I see pros and cons of each. CWO is a cool test program where you could fly until you retire and not worry about having to screen for DH/CO, but the pay is less especially when you get up to the O-4 level and I would be ranked against traditional CWOs that ARE filling DH billets for promotion boards.(The Flying CWOs are already having a problem with this and some have been looked over twice already requiring waivers just to stay in). I am a P-3 maintainer and would love to stay P-3's, but I don't think it would be the wisest career choice as a 1310 due to the high number of JO's compared to DH spots.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is if you had to do it again would you go through a program like FWO to get more flying time even though you know you will never be a Department Head or Commanding Officer?

 

[webmaster]

I personally think the Flying WOs days are numbered. That is just my OPINION. I would recommend you take whichever you get selected for, but if you get OCS, go that route instead, as it opens up more options for you:
- Greater pay
- More selection options for flying
- Greater advancement
- Less chance of watching your billet go away
- Larger available pool of follow on duty tours

I am curious if the FWOs will actually get tour after tour of consecutive flying. I know there are a couple PPC FWOs, but I wonder how much they are really signing for aircraft. In our squadron, with 4 pilot department heads, XO pilot, 8 LT PPCs, and soon to be 1 Super JO pilot, the FWO would be in dead last place to sign for a plane. Regardless of which tour he/she would be in, more than not, would be sitting 2P. Get the IP qual, then as a level 400, you can concievably sign over a LT, but just sounds like a lot of management for OPS and the skeds writers to factor in for the FWO.

Anyone have FWOs in their squadrons, some should be approaching talking follow on orders, how are they working out?

John

 

[squorch2]

There should be a FWO in Norfolk (HSC-type) about up for follow-on orders...

 

[millsra13]

Thanks John, I appreciate the insight. OCS is my primary choice, I just wanted to make sure you 1310 guys weren't going to say that FWO is the best thing around and I'd be a fool to take OCS over CWO. Is it really as hard as it seems to screen for DH in the VP world? My Mentor is a TACAMO pilot and said it is miserable trying to to pick up DH in his community and that VP is getting there, especially with the P-8 rolling out in the near future. I really love the P-3 community(what's not to love), but I'm in for the long haul so I'll go wherever I have the best chance for a long-term career.

 

[BourneID]

.(The Flying CWOs are already having a problem with this and some have been looked over twice already requiring waivers just to stay in).

Not true yet, none of the flying CWO's have been selected long enough to be passed over for anything.

The end product of flying tour to flying tour has yet to be seen though, due to the fact no one has rolled out of their initial sea tour. It will be interesting to see when it finally plays out.

 

[Flash]

Thanks John, I appreciate the insight. OCS is my primary choice, I just wanted to make sure you 1310 guys weren't going to say that FWO is the best thing around and I'd be a fool to take OCS over CWO. Is it really as hard as it seems to screen for DH in the VP world? My Mentor is a TACAMO pilot and said it is miserable trying to to pick up DH in his community and that VP is getting there, especially with the P-8 rolling out in the near future. I really love the P-3 community(what's not to love), but I'm in for the long haul so I'll go wherever I have the best chance for a long-term career.

By the time you get to DH things will probably change drastically, they have in the time I have been in the Navy. During my first JO tour they did not have a DH screen board and pretty much everyone who stayed in and qualified got a DH tour. That doesn't mean they were all competitive but they usually got a crack at it. Now it is a different story but 10-14 years from now when you might be looking at DH things will likely be a lot different, for better or for worse.

To base long-term career decisions on what you see now is a bit of a mistake, it is a moving target and as detailers are fond of saying 'the truth changes'.

 

[millsra13]

By the time you get to DH things will probably change drastically, they have in the time I have been in the Navy. During my first JO tour they did not have a DH screen board and pretty much everyone who stayed in and qualified got a DH tour. That doesn't mean they were all competitive but they usually got a crack at it. Now it is a different story but 10-14 years from now when you might be looking at DH things will likely be a lot different, for better or for worse.

That's a good point, I was thinking a little short-sighted. Maybe the airlines will start hiring again and retention won't be so high when(if) the economy finally turns around. It seems to go in 10 year cycles (at least for enlisted) so my luck it will get really good, then when I'm up for DH it will close up again!

Not true yet, none of the flying CWO's have been selected long enough to be passed over for anything.

What do you mean? There are a few that are already CWO3s. I walked over to PERS 43 (I am at Millington) the LCDR that run the program and they told me that they have had at least one guy who was passed over twice for CWO3. They were able to keep him in the Navy because of the circumstances and they were looking into a fix for this situation. Are you a FWO? Do you enjoy it? Who are you up against for evals, other Warrants or JOs? It seems like JOs would be the logically competition, but that just sounds weird having two different types of officer in the same Fitrep pool.

I really appreciate everyone's input, I'm on shore duty at CNRC right now so I don't exactly have a plethora of brown shoes to get insider knowledge on so you guys are really helping me out!

 

[twobecrazy]

Millsra13, eliminate the lady's name in your previous post...

 

[millsra13]

Her name is on every single Flying CWO NAVADMIN and on the Flying CWO webpage on NPC as the point of contact along with her email and phone number. If you Google Navy Flying CWO her name will show up on that page somewhere. I don't think I am divulging any secrets. I'm also not sure I have the juice to edit after a certain amount of time, there was a link on the old forum, but I can't figure out how to edit the post on this new one. If one of the mods feels that her name needs to be taken out, by all means do so (or tell me how to do it and I would be glad to).

 

[BourneID]

Year group 1 and 2 are all CWO3s with the exception of of those who have attrited and are no longer with us. They have talked about making a continuation for those passed over for W4 when that time comes. Those who select early in their career ie: under 8 or 6 years, might need the continuation to stay to 20. It has only been talked about, and not implemented. Yes I am a FCWO, and I love it. Competition for FITREPS is against the other W2, or W3, or W4, etc.. in your command, however my last FITREP, I was the only W3, so you can see the competition wasn't tough. To add to that though, BUPERS is pushing for CWOs to compete within designator, so when it comes board time, you will only be competing against other FCWOs. So your FITREP would more than likely mirror those you are competing against in the board.

I wouldn't dare say going FCWO is better than going OCS, because both have pros and cons. It all comes down to what you want to do in your career. Regular guys have a career path, more opportunities, and can fly in more platforms, FCWOs are limited by airframe, and we have no clue whats going to happen when it comes to follow on orders, or when it comes time for another sea tour. Time will tell. If you have any more questions, feel free to Message me, and I will be glad to help, but I encourage you to apply for both, either way, they are great opportunities.