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General: ‘War On Terror’ Is ‘Inaccurate’ Label For War On Insurgency

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
http://defense.iwpnewsstand.com/newsstand_special.asp

NEWPORT, RI -- The Bush administration’s term “global war on terrorism” is an “inaccurate” label for what is truly a war against an insurgency, according to the three-star general in charge of Marine Corps forces in the Pacific region.

Lt. Gen. Wallace Gregson said winning the “profoundly complex human conflict” depends not on killing and capturing enemies but on winning the hearts and minds of people around the world, particularly by improving the lives of the destitute and the poor living in troubled parts of the globe. He spoke June 15 at the Naval War College’s Current Strategy Forum.

The United States and its allies are fighting a networked, global insurgency led by extremist Muslims, he said. The insurgent leaders do not speak for all of Islam, but they threaten to hijack the religion for their own purposes, he said. The United States needs to be on the side of moderate Islam and avoid being set up as an enemy of Islam, he said.

“This war has a popular label and a political label, but it’s not accurate,” said Gregson. “Terrorism is a means of power projection, it’s a weapon, it’s a tool of war. Think of it as our enemy’s stealth bomber. This is no more a war on terrorism than World War II was a war on submarines. It’s not just semantics . . . Words have meaning. And these words our leading us down to the wrong concept.”

Gregson added, “What we’re fighting is an insurgency defined as a popular movement that seeks to change the status quo through violence, subversion, propaganda, terrorism or other military action. But it’s different from other national insurgencies that we’ve known in the past. This one is networked thanks to the wonders of technology. It’s primarily ideologically driven, fundamentalist and extremist.”

A new class of regional and global actors have linked these movements in a global network of ideology, financiers, document forgers, transportation experts and propagandists, he said. This includes al Qaeda, Jemaah Islamiyah and other affiliated theater movements, he said.

“It’s a collection or a confederation of movements empowered by regional and global fundamentalist extremist insurgents,” Gregson said. “You can borrow an old phrase and say they think globally and act locally.”

Winning the war will require more than just victory on the battlefield, he said.

“The center of gravity, the decisive terrain in this war is the vast majority of people who are not directly involved but whose support, willing or coerced, is necessary to insurgent operations around the world,” he said. “Hearts and minds are more important than capturing and killing people.”

After 1973, the U.S. military quickly dropped the study of insurgency and turned back to so-called “real war,” he said, but now officials need to study this form of warfare, “not as it once was, but as it is now.”

Following Gregson’s initial remarks, a member of the audience noted in the Middle East the term “war on terrorism” gets morphed into “war against Islam,” and suggested the term “war on insurgency” should be used instead.

“I would certainly concur,” Gregson replied. “The global networked enemy that we’re fighting is doing, very, very, very well in the information ops area and portraying our actions as anti-Islamic, anti-Islam, anti-Muslim. And we have to find some way to counter that.” U.S. Central Command has recently started “engaging very heavily with Al Jazeera with interviews and speakers and low and behold Al Jazeera’s coverage has considerably changed,” he added. “We need to do more of that.”

In answering the question Gregson said, “The main thrust of my remarks was that we know we’re stuck with the name, it’s going to be the global war on terrorism. . . . But even though we’ve got that name out there, we’ve got to at least in the security community and then further on through the greater world . . . explain what we’re about here and get it into something that is properly categorized and puts us on the side of the angels in various areas.”
(Answer to other question and irrelevant stuff from Johns Hopkins guy snipped)

This is definitely one thing that has bugged me since the start of the GWOT - terrorism, in my mind, is a means to a political end - it's asymmetric warfare taken to an extreme. General Gregson's point about how "terrorism" is being twisted to mean "American euphemism for Islam," thus undermining the hearts-and-minds mission is also prescient.
 

Skidtz

Puddle Pirate
Excellent post. It's good to see the upper echelons evaluating their approach. It gives government more credence when the discussion is publicized. Sometimes the single-purpose-united-front appears more a cavalcade of political yes-men.
 

junfan26

Snake Griffin
thanks for the post...I always find speeches by generals inspiring as hell, and this one was particularly intelligent. Stuff like this really makes you realize the quality of the men who run our military.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
squorch2 said:
http://defense.iwpnewsstand.com/newsstand_special.asp

(Answer to other question and irrelevant stuff from Johns Hopkins guy snipped)

This is definitely one thing that has bugged me since the start of the GWOT - terrorism, in my mind, is a means to a political end - it's asymmetric warfare taken to an extreme. General Gregson's point about how "terrorism" is being twisted to mean "American euphemism for Islam," thus undermining the hearts-and-minds mission is also prescient.
Thanks for the brilliant insight and analysis, General MOTO :icon_mi_5 .

Brett
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
You guys "think war" too much. Theoretical .... test tubes .... classrooms .... opinion pages ... your sense of your knowledge of the world ..... and based on what?? Your vast experience?? Or your own opinions .... ??

Well, here's another opinion:The General, in my opinion, is a politician -- as are many General and Flag officers ... or do you think they got to that pinnacle of career success by virtue of leadership in combat .... ??? There nothing inherently wrong with being political and thoughtful --- very nice words; theoretical words --- much food for thought that's in evidence in this current version of a kinder, gentler military establishment. He would like a fourth star ..... his deep thoughts, that we should understand this “profoundly complex human conflict” --- are the kind of theoretical approach(s) that get USGI's killed .... always have -- always will. Believe it.

Let's see how "profoundly complex" the issue gets in OUR people's "hearts and minds" if another large body count occurs in the USA. During the Vietnam War --- you people DO remember that "insurgency" and the lessons learned, don't you(??) , where the term "hearts and minds" was coined --- some military sage, when asked about the "hearts and minds" concerns of kinder, gentler prognosticators and pundits, replied:

"If you grab them by the balls --- their hearts and minds will follow ... "

You've heard this before ... it's simple, trite --- some would say "simplistic". But just remember where it came from and the lessons that were learned in blood. Now .... how's that for "prescience" ???

Time to go squeeze some limes ..... :)
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A4sForever said:
You guys "think war" too much. Theoretical .... test tubes .... classrooms .... opinion pages ... your sense of your knowledge of the world ..... and based on what?? Your vast experience?? Or your own opinions .... ??

Well, here's another opinion:The General, in my opinion, is a politician -- as are many General and Flag officers ... or do you think they got to that pinnacle of career success by virtue of leadership in combat .... ??? There nothing inherently wrong with being political and thoughtful --- very nice words; theoretical words --- much food for thought that's in evidence in this current version of a kinder, gentler military establishment. He would like a fourth star ..... his deep thoughts, that we should understand this “profoundly complex human conflict” --- are the kind of theoretical approach(s) that get USGI's killed .... always have -- always will. Believe it.

Let's see how "profoundly complex" the issue gets in OUR people's "hearts and minds" if another large body count occurs in the USA. During the Vietnam War --- you people DO remember that "insurgency" and the lessons learned, don't you(??) , where the term "hearts and minds" was coined --- some military sage, when asked about the "hearts and minds" concerns of kinder, gentler prognosticators and pundits, replied:

"If you grab them by the balls --- their hearts and minds will follow ... "

You've heard this before ... it's simple, trite --- some would say "simplistic". But just remember where it came from and the lessons that were learned in blood. Now .... how's that for "prescience" ???

Time to go squeeze some limes ..... :)
Can you please explain what it is you were trying to explain.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Steve Wilkins said:
Can you please explain what it is you were trying to explain.
Hmmmm .... there must be a disconnect here --- the three PM's I just got seemed to "get it" .... but Steve, I realize you're ticked about my posts to you on another thread --- that you also didn't "get" --- so if this has to be explained to you --- you probably won't "get" this any time soon , either ..... peace. :) Have a drink and relax ....
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A4sForever said:
Hmmmm .... there must be a disconnect here --- the three PM's I just got seemed to "get it"
Glad they were able to. I for one think I know what you were saying, but I wasn't quite sure, hence the request for further clarification. I'd rather really understand what you were trying to say than think I understand and then confuse your words to mean something you didn't mean.

A4sForever said:
.... but Steve, I realize you're ticked about my posts to you on another thread--- that you also didn't "get"
I couldn't care less what you said in another thread about another topic (unless it has some relevance to this thread...which it doesn't). For the record, I don't hold thread grudges. In that case it's not about me not getting what you were saying. You and I obviously have a philosophically difference of opinion on that other topic, and that is unlikely to change anytime soon. But in any case, my feelings toward your comments in that thread are not transfered to other things you post.

A4sForever said:
--- so if this has to be explained to you --- you probably won't "get" this any time soon....
I was just trying to verify what it was you were trying to explain. Whether I "get" it or not remains to be seen once I'm sure I know what your point was.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
Along these same lines...

http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/07/26/news/terror.php

The Bush administration is retooling its slogan for the fight against Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, pushing the idea that the long-term struggle is as much an ideological battle as a military mission, according to senior administration and military officials.

In recent speeches and news conferences, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the country's top military officer have spoken of "a global struggle against violent extremism" rather than "the global war on terror," which had been the catchphrase of choice.

Administration officials say the earlier phrase may have outlived its usefulness, because it focused attention solely, and incorrectly, on the military campaign.

General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the National Press Club on Monday that he had "objected to the use of the term 'war on terrorism' before, because if you call it a war, then you think of people in uniform as being the solution."
 

TransvestFO

Seven years of college, down the drain.
A-4s. I didn't really understand what you were saying either. Got the part about you being pissed off about something... I think.

Would like to say that I, for one, don't believe that LT.GEN. Gregson is trying to trade his career for soldiers lives just because he believes that surpressing insurgent's actions should be based on something besides killing folks. I don't believe he fully understands or appreciates the requirements for "winning" a world-wide conflict against extremist Muslim groups, but who does? Seems he is falling in line with those who believe that violent military actions can often plant the seeds for further insurgent actions and that we have to examine ways to break this repetitive loop.

Perhaps if you have a few minutes, you can compare the "hearts and minds" theme from Viet Nam with what you suspect the military leadership is doing today. Not sure I am fulling getting that piece. It seems to me that the large body counts always seem to come as a result of those "grab them by the balls" actions that you mentioned. Are you saying that if we figure out a way to surpress the violent Muslim minority (tiny minority in fact) through non-violent actions, that this will lead to large body counts? Or are you saying that if the Military leadership shifts to a hearts and minds campaign, that this will somehow lead to letting our guard down and that will result in high body counts? Or something else...

Thoughts?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Just because a high ranking officer challenges the 'conventional thinking' doesn'y mean he has sold out or is a politician. If it was a field grade or junior officer people might commend them for their original thinking or 'out of the box'. Part of the reason he is paid the big bucks is to do some original thinking. Anyways, he has some sound reasoning behind his argument.

Finally, if we are at war why are we not following the rules or laws of war? Why are we calling the enemy terrorists and 'enemy combatants' and saying they are not real soldiers?
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Original thinking ??? A General Officer ... :) ... that's rich. I tell you, some of you guys sound like such suck-ups and company men.

AP reports: "Top officials of the Bush administration have changed the way that they talk about terrorism. They have stopped speaking of a “war on terrorism.” Thinking it too narrowly defined, they now talk of a “struggle against global extremism.”

As in the President, Secretary Rumsfeld, the CJC, the State Department, etc., etc. ad infinitum. "Original thinking"? Hardly .....

(Hearts & minds .... for explanation: that's a bad joke for Vietnam vets. Don't let it happen again in the current "war" --- we had "original thinkers" in Vietnam, also. They cost a lot of lives while polishing their theories and gold braid.)

Personally, I don't care what we call them --- Islamic radicals --- I just want to kill them -- all of them. Let someone else figure out where the Islamic "hearts and minds" resides ---
 

Fmr1833

Shut the F#%k up, dummy!
None
Contributor
For those who don't "get it", at least the Commander-in-Chief does. Today he clarified the name "War on Terror" and the SecDef did the same during a phoned-in speech the other day. It's a war. Period. Gen. Myers, sage that he is, implied that because economic and diplomatic ends were used in conjunction with the War of Terror that it therefore did not meet his criteria for war. A cursory look at Clausewitz reveals that war, by definition, is but an extension of diplomacy. I.E., thanks General, but you're wrong on this one. We like to analyze things and try to find the sensitive way of handling war. It's WAR, stupid! Kill people and break things. Insurgents getting more active...bomb the sh!t out of them. Find them and kill them. Yes, talk to the locals and establish a rapport, but I promise that if you kill the insurgent who is not only terrorizing us, but the locals as well, the locals will be more willing to GIVE you their hearts and minds. I think A-4's is trying to say that if you're at war, act like it. It's like my dad said the first time I got picked on by someone bigger than me, "Son, if he comes at you swinging start punching him in the face and don't stop until someone pulls you off." Brutal? Yes. The way to win?...uhhh, yeah, no sh!t.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Flash said:
Finally, if we are at war why are we not following the rules or laws of war? Why are we calling the enemy terrorists and 'enemy combatants' and saying they are not real soldiers?

I could be wrong, but don't the rules of war require the enemy to be part of an organized military wearing a uniform of its nation? Doesn't sound like the guys we are fighting. If the United States was invaded and the citizens fought against the invaders independent of the military, they would not be considered soldiers. The rules of war do not apply to them. I remember this very clearly in our "Naval Ethics" class or whatever it was called.
 
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