Givin' it up for the people

[raptor10]

I'm surpirsed that this hasn't cropped up on air warriors yet, but does anyone have any opinionsD) about the hooplah surrounding General Michael Hayden's nomination to be Director of Central Intelligence. It seems most people wouldn't have a problem with him if he 'just gave up' his uniform, which seems like an unfair requirement.

Hayden Talks!

Hayden Talks About Intelligence With Senators Tuesday, May 09, 2006

WASHINGTON — Air Force General Michael Hayden has the support of the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, but some senators who met with the CIA director nominee on Tuesday say they are still concerned about Hayden keeping his military commission.


They suggest hanging up his stripes could clear up a lot of the concern that the spy agency would be usurped by the military if Hayden were given the top post there.


"I think that would take care of that issue. I think he can be a standup person, but I understand the concern about the uniform, particularly with the encroachment of defense on intelligence as it is. I think you need someone who is free of that," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a member of the committee that will be handling Hayden's confirmation hearing.

 

[nittany03]

They suggest hanging up his stripes could clear up a lot of the concern that the spy agency would be usurped by the military if Hayden were given the top post there.

How did he go from having stars to stripes? Did they bust him down to Master Sergeant or something? :icon_tong

I suppose he could "retire" and then get "called back to active duty" conveniently a few years down when we need him back in the AF. I am sick of hearing about the "military mindset" as though it's inimicable [sp?] to holding a civilian job, though. Some pundits seem to think we're all a bunch of brainwashed robots . . .

 

[FlyingBeagle]

Some pundits seem to think we're all a bunch of brainwashed robots . . .

That is affirmative. . . free thought does not compute. Must consult superiors for input. . .

 

[Riper Snifle]

I feel confident in Gen. Hayden's ability to lead the CIA. As far as retiring goes, would it not just allow another member of the Air Force the ability to move up the chain? I guess I just don't know why Gen. Hayden would move back to a position he already held. After being chief of the CIA he could move on to other positions, maybe a cabinet position. My question to the forum is... would a move back to the military after heading the CIA be a step back or a step forward in someone's career? I just see it as a major move towards authority in Washington and politics, while having incredible experience in the military.

 

[squorch2]

This "military in charge of a civilian agency" thing is a non-starter, in my eyes. Read the statute:

Military status of Director and Deputy Directors
(1)
(A) Not more than one of the individuals serving in the positions specified in subparagraph (B) may be a commissioned officer of the Armed Forces, whether in active or retired status.
(B) The positions referred to in subparagraph (A) are the following:
(i) The Director of Central Intelligence.
(ii) The Deputy Director of Central Intelligence.
(iii) The Deputy Director of Central Intelligence for Community Management.
(2) It is the sense of Congress that, under ordinary circumstances, it is desirable that one of the individuals serving in the positions specified in paragraph (1)(B)—
(A) be a commissioned officer of the Armed Forces, whether in active or retired status; or
(B) have, by training or experience, an appreciation of military intelligence activities and requirements.

Additionally, check out the first few directors. Not much of an uproar about that. I think the real controversy would be in the confirmation hearings where General Hayden's stewardship of the NSA during the warrantless wiretapping program would be questioned.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Anybody know who the active duty Army officer was who served as National Security Advisor for President Reagan in the late 80's?.....anyone?....anyone?

General Hayden as DCI?....this is a non-issue IMHO.

 

[squorch2]

Anybody know who the active duty Army officer was who served as National Security Advisor for President Reagan in the late 80's?.....anyone?....anyone?

from here:"The spirit of the reforms was given more content by the new NSC leadership appointed by President Reagan in November 1987: National Security Adviser Frank Carlucci and Deputy National Security Adviser Lieutenant General Colin Powell...In the autumn of 1988, Carlucci was called to the Defense Department to succeed Caspar Weinberger, and for the third time among his six appointments to the position of National Security Adviser during his presidency, Reagan promoted the Deputy. General Powell directed an NSC..."

 

[Steve Wilkins]

from here:"The spirit of the reforms was given more content by the new NSC leadership appointed by President Reagan in November 1987: National Security Adviser Frank Carlucci and Deputy National Security Adviser Lieutenant General Colin Powell...In the autumn of 1988, Carlucci was called to the Defense Department to succeed Caspar Weinberger, and for the third time among his six appointments to the position of National Security Adviser during his presidency, Reagan promoted the Deputy. General Powell directed an NSC..."

We have a winner! Pick your prize.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

As for military men holding the position, I think the only DoD-types to become DCI were Admiral Stansfield Turner and John Deutsch. Turner was an Academy Grad who saw fit to eliminate over 800 operational HUMINT positions in a bid to free up funding for TECHINT and SIGINT. His successor, William Casey, spent years "un-doing" these and other changes. John Deutsch is generally thought to have used the position as part of an unsuccesful bid to become Secretary of Defense. He is now named as a primary cause of the post-Cold War, pre-9/11 emasculation of CIA HUMINT, and ultimately was forced to resign when highly classified information was found on his home computer.

Well, most of the early DCIs were military types... through VADM Raborn under LBJ. Don't know what Deutsch's background in the DoD was... thought he was a career political weenie.

I think you're right that the concern with Hayden is with his technical background... when the grumbling within the Agency is that the idiot Deutch put insane restrictions on the DO... I wonder what a guy with very comparitively little expertise in HUMINT can bring to the table...

 

[The Chief]

As for military men holding the position, I think the only DoD-types to become DCI were Admiral Stansfield Turner and John Deutsch.

Holy, smoley where does this crap come from? Not history?

Number 1: John Deutsch was one of the few CIA Directors that did not have a military background. He was an MIT professor. Most all others were former military officers. Most always the Deputy Director of CIA is a Flag/General Officer. VADM Bobby Innman was one of the most prominent, also former Director of NSA. Yes, Deutsch was SecDef but that does not make him a military officer.

Number 2: Did you forget about:

RADM Souers
LTGEN Vandenberg
RADM Hillenkoetter (spell??)
LTGEN Bedel Smith
VADM Raborn (spell??)

Number 3: Disagree with most all of your argument but your views and that is okay, you are entitled

Number 4: The biggest argument against the good General, as far as I can tell, is that he knows too much about US Intelligence. :icon_rage :icon_rage Was not the cry right after 911 that CIA vs NSA they need to get it together?

Number 5. You asked my view. I do not think that the Director of CIA should be an active duty officer. Could be wrong but thought that was the law, but could have been changed.

 

[The Chief]

Well, most of the early DCIs were military types... through VADM Raborn under LBJ. Don't know what Deutsch's background in the DoD was... thought he was a career political weenie.

Good for you TB55. Rep points to you. Racked my brain and to my, albeit frail, comparatively, memory I think Deutsch was the only Director that had no military nor intelligence experience. He was the one carrying home highly classified material by the sack full. Scooter Libby should be so lucky. Allen Dulles also did not have a military background, but was in the OSS, Bern as I recall. Bay of Pigs anyone?:icon_rage :icon_rage :icon_rage

And in another post I will tell you exactly how I think.:icon_rage :icon_rage

 

[squorch2]

Like I said earlier, the real issue will be General Hayden's time at the NSA, especially in light of programs like this.

 

[The Chief]

Did the research: CIA has had 19 Directors. A total of 6 had no military experience, that is, were never military officers, 13 were former military officers including the 5 retired flag/general officers noted in previous post. The 6 with no military experience were:

George Tenet (Slam dunk WMD, 9/11, USS Cole, Embassy bombings)
John Deutsch (Bags of classified information taken from agency)
Robert Gates
James Schlesinger
John McCone
Allen Dulles

 

[The Chief]

...didn't mean to inspire so much, err, passion (+13 smilies, mostly flaming) with my post. I guess I thought I'd have to wait until I was a JO to get put in my place by a Chief.

No harm, no foul. And uhhh... that be Master Chief! That spent over 45 years in the "business", including 18 years in the Navy, of which I am most proud. Worked in/with most all three letter agencies, including NRO and just about every other agency in between, including private sector contractors supporting said agencies. Personally knew 2 of the 19 CIA Directors and their families. We do need to keep our facts straight, and while no one has all the answers, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I do think CIA has some very deep deep problems of which because of my previous life(s) I cannot discuss in an open forum. I just hope problems get fixed, quick. God speed to whom ever is confirmed to the position. :icon_smil :icon_smil