HEAD's UP!! Airline Hiring (?) and Profits UP !!!

[A4sForever]

Click link: Airline payrolls rose in July after hiring chill

" .... [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Delta Air Lines Inc., US Airways and Continental Airlines Inc. led major carriers in expanding payrolls in July, taking on new workers after the industry slashed its job ranks over the prior four years.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]The new hiring comes as airlines fatten their bottom lines thanks to a jump in traffic levels, some increased fares and leaner operations following several bankruptcies. In the second quarter, U.S. airlines posted their highest operating profit margin since 2000 .....

(note: this is WAY before-9/11, which really goes a long way towards "proving" what many of us have long contended; namely that what the "poor mouthing" from airline managements and the bankruptcies were all about in the first place .... NOT 9/11 but rather breaking the unions and killing the employee pay scales and standards ... cheers)

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]Northwest plans to add to its ranks this year, ..... and it is hiring 250 to 350 more pilots.[/FONT]

 

[Nose]

For any of you guys approching the decision point - do yourself a favor and talk to people who have already made the decision before you act. The airline job ain't at all what it used to be and the military life aint as bad as you think it is. I'm not trying to steer anyone in any direction, but find someone you trust and ask them questions.

This might be a good time to become an Airline pilot (at the front of a hopefully big hiring boom). But when I got hired it was also a good time to be getting hired and I haven't seen the salad days yet. Furloughed, pension gone, pay cut etc.

If you are sold on getting out, think about what other opportunities there are out there. As a former military (or even USAF) officer, you have a lot of doors open to you, but they won't be open forever.

Nose

 

[A4sForever]

......The airline job ain't at all what it used to be and the military life aint as bad as you think it is. .....

Both true .... but the downside applies to the military as well.

I saw and flew in the military "glory years" of the jet age and lived in the painful draw down years that followed ... which was a part of the decision to get out. And I had my "dream" orders forthcoming ... but I'd had enough of UNCLE and made my "Jimmy Carter's Navy" influenced decision. In retrospect, I'm glad I got out.

I've been in on the leading edge of two airline hiring "booms" ... I quit one airline for a better opportunity (when NO ONE "quit" an airline) , I saw one carrier get shot out from under me, and I did very well at another.

There's cycles, good and bad, in EVERY walk of life. Timing .... it's always TIMING and where are YOU in the cycle .... so go figure out what YOU want to do and go for it. Like the man said, educate yourself --- but in the end: IT'S YOUR DECISION. Make it; live with it.

If it works, the timing worked for you .... congrats, and bully. If it doesn't work, the timing didn't work for you. Take the cards you were dealt, don't bitch about it, move on and don't sit around second-guessing the rest of your days.

It's ALWAYS timing ...

 

[Nose]

Both true .... but the downside applies to the military as well.

---

It's ALWAYS timing ...


[/B]

Agree and after looking at my post, I realized that I seemed to lean towards staying in. Both sides have their ups and downs, if I painted a slanted picture, it was inadvertant.

Nose

 

[FrankTheTank]

Timing is everything but Senority is something you can never get back...

Just my pesos...

Got to do what is right for self and family and live with that decision..

 

[Mayday]

Keep in mind, for one thing, the payscale, and by that I mean the ENTIRE SCALE, bottom to top. Somewhere in the middle, the civ scale crosses the mil scale, but at the entry level, the military is still MUCH BETTER right now, and probably will be for at least another 2-5 years, I think. $50k/yr military, $25k/yr civ. Hmmm, not yet a difficult choice to make.

Let's not kick off a massive discussion about joining the military for the right reasons, please. Just do a search if you want to chime in on those.

 

[A4sForever]

Timing is everything but Senority is something you can never get back....

Well ... yeah ..... but without the former, how do you ever get the latter ???

 

[scoober78]

As a former military (or even USAF) officer

Very nice...

 

[bunk22]

Keep in mind, for one thing, the payscale, and by that I mean the ENTIRE SCALE, bottom to top. Somewhere in the middle, the civ scale crosses the mil scale, but at the entry level, the military is still MUCH BETTER right now, and probably will be for at least another 2-5 years, I think. $50k/yr military, $25k/yr civ. Hmmm, not yet a difficult choice to make.

Let's not kick off a massive discussion about joining the military for the right reasons, please. Just do a search if you want to chime in on those.

What's the starting salary for an O1? I don't think it's $50k a year. My buds at Southwest have made decent money in just a few years. Equal to what I make as an O-4 after 15 years based on Florida BAH.......though I guess I'm taxed less. He's in his 5th year at SW and will make around $110-115k or so. Of course this is just one example, plenty of airlines I guess, regional, majors, legacy, etc. For me, anytime below 15 years would be a no brainer, punch, go reserves. I'll have only 3 years left after my orders to 20 years. If the Navy offered me a 15yr retirement tomorrow, I'd be gone.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Well ... yeah ..... but without the former, how do you ever get the latter ???

You have to get off the fence.. Once told this which is the best I have ever heard.. "You can't get hired, if you ain't available"

I think. $50k/yr military, $25k/yr civ. Hmmm, not yet a difficult choice to make.

That would be low for the majors.. (general rule of thumb is if hourly $ equals yearly.. ie $100 per hour = $100,000)
Airline/1st yr /2nd year
Fedex/$54/$105
UPS/$33/$102
SWA/$52/$88
Delta/$49/$68
Continental/$31/$56

Just a few examples.. All of the above are hiring and those are conservative upgrades, for instance, Delta is putting new hires in JFK 767 and I think Continental has done the same for EWR 777.. Also doesn't figure any international overrides, per diem, open time pickups, et cetera..

My most current pay stub (15 Sept 07) has me at $118,XXX for the year and my QOL is insane (A whopping 108hrs and 25min of block time)

NOTE: My entire argument is based on getting on at the major level! If I couldn't have done that, Plan B was to sell pharmacudicals and drill for currency till getting on with a major.. JV route is for time builders.. If you have the numbers then currency is your issue.. Just MHO

 

[Mayday]

Well, let me qualify in response to both previous posts.

1. Pay and benifits, man, pay and benefits (I know, I'm stretching it by $1500 bucks, but it's pretty close to $50k. Besides, add up all the on-base discounts, and voila! $50k equivalent.)

2. How often does an entry level pilot (newly certificated w/ commercial and maybe 500hrs) get to be hired by an airline directly? I'm asking, not challenging, simply because I don't know. I hear it's not often though.

3. Added as an edit after a little search: ...and when a pilot has to start at a auxiliary puddle-jumping outfit, the avg. starting salary last year was $20,000. Some were starting for as little as $17,000 flying SAABs.

 

[A4sForever]

You have to get off the fence.. Once told this which is the best I have ever heard.. "You can't get hired, if you ain't available"

Not sure what you're saying, but that's O.K. Happens frequently, I'm told ... we're probably saying the same thing, just different words.

It's still timing ... and timing .... and, of course, timing ..... i.e., I spent my last 12 years in the left seat of the Whale in my third (and last) airline .... while guys who were hired years ahead of me at airline #1 and #2 and were flying Captain in both airlines never saw the flying nor the paychecks that I did .... as I moved on after quiting #1 and watching #2 crash and burn. They had "seniority" ... didn't help 'em in the greater scheme of things ...

Top to bottom pay scales that I experienced (unadjusted for inflation and discounting probationary years):

@ $30,000/annum --- many, many moons ago ... I thought I'd died and gone to heaven compared with then concurrent Navy LT's pay .... but I was wrong.

> $250,000/year --- which included a little "overtime" ... and I'm still not in "heaven". Not bad if you are an employee ... but if you want to get "rich" ... you need to be your own boss.

Timing .. business cycles ... and like you said, you gotta' be "available". I was ....

 

[FrankTheTank]

Mayday:

I do believe the military pays and trains a better pilot; however, when your committment is up then it comes down to a personal decision to stay or go.. I did the Navy and then left.. I DO believe that is sound and honorable!

A4s:

We are talking the same.. The rules now are that you have to drop your resignation (18-12) months before your commitment is up.. That is Fitrep suicide and who knows what the hiring picture will be after a year and a half.. So if you try to play the game and work orders w/ detailer than you ain't avaible and will not be on the master senoirty list..

AND YES 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT, IT IS TIMING!!!

But I would also add you have to be qualified, recommended (networked) and available.. Well and of course, interview, sim check, etc.. I appreciate your input cause I have been at this game much shorter of a time.. As a widebody F/O with only 3 years on property, I am in wholehearted agreement with TIMING!

 

[A4sForever]

^ And don't forget the good tie for the interview. Traditional conservative business wear -- grey or blue suit w/complementing white or blue quality shirt -- i.e., no poloyester, none of the current dark shirt/light tie Mafia look, no foo-foo pastels, and no Al Gore alpha-male "earth tones" ....

*edit* ... polyester, not poloyester .... can't spell it. But then, why would you want to ..... ????

And know how to tie a proper knot.

 

[HeloBubba]

And know how to tie a proper knot.

Which the USN should have taught you...