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Helicopter crew chiefs

East

东部
Contributor
Being a fixed-wing guy my entire career, can you lighten things up how dependable you were/are on a GOOD crew chief?

In recent posts it's been said that there are no longer crew chiefs onboard USN helo's, just AWHs who don't know much about their platform (as for technical matters that is). With a HAC who's eligable to sign for release there is no need for crew chiefs in todays navy, right or wrong?

Again condolances to anyone related to this unfortunate Aircrew.
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot
I would say that your dependence on a good crew chief depends on what mission you are doing. We dont call them Crew Chief's, just seasoned AW's in the back. Trust me, they help alot when hunting subs, and are key in CSAR, DLQ's, etc. At least in the HS world, they have alot of knowledge on the helo and especially on the gear they are running.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
HSC (old HC) still uses crew chiefs. they and the second crewman are key parts of the crew. Good crewmen are awesome assets.

Mods: can we split the crew chief discussion so the other one can be saved for condolences?
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Being a fixed-wing guy my entire career, can you lighten things up how dependable you were/are on a GOOD crew chief?

In recent posts it's been said that there are no longer crew chiefs onboard USN helo's, just AWHs who don't know much about their platform (as for technical matters that is). With a HAC who's eligable to sign for release there is no need for crew chiefs in todays navy, right or wrong?

Again condolances to anyone related to this unfortunate Aircrew.
Can't speak towards Navy helicopters, but in USMC Assault Support they are a VITAL member of the crew, for many different reasons.

First, they're the ones doing the daily/turnaround inspections on your aircraft. It's very comforting to know that the guy who's telling you it's safe for flight is also going to be in the aircraft with you.

Second, troubleshooting systems. It's great to have a mechanic on board when something goes wrong/seems like its going wrong who has systems knowledge that far exceeds yours. Also, when you get indications that something is going wrong, and he goes back and jiggles wire and it stops, it prevents unneccesary PEL's.

Third, in the CH-46E we can only see the front part of the aircraft. There's somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 feet of aircraft that we can't see. It's also vital that they are clearing our tails, as well as building our SA with regards to obstacles, where are wheels are, etc...

Fourth and finally, when you get a good crew chief that has incredible SA and headwork, he's indispensible. We were flying back to Al Asad in less than optimal weather (the kind that I turn on the IR searchlight, say "oh sh!t" and turn it off), and my crewchief climbed up in the tunnel and sat on the map case. When I asked him what he was doing, he said that he couldn't see anything from the 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock position, and that he would watch the engine and transmission gauges, as long as we just do the instrument flying we needed to do to get him back in one piece. You can't remove/replace that...
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
Concur on everything said above -- some helo communities do not use their AW's to the max extent as they could -- AW's in my first squadron (HS) fought getting their PC qual -- was a huge stink. I do prefer to have a trained wrench turner who flies -- can help you out a ton when you get stuck a million miles from nowhere. However, the AW rating master plan seems to have taken that away.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Not sure how other navy helo communities use their AWs, but ours do a whole lot, with the utility crewman (crew chief) running the show in the back for all of our different missions, from SAR to Vertrep to NSW. They all used to do maintenance, but that's gone away, like hscs said. however, they are all still PCs, so they can recover the helo and do DTAs. I've heard that having the crewman give calls to the deck is a HC specific thing and that other Navy helo communities don't use their AWs that way.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
HSL/HSM

Normally fly with 1 AW (now AWR) for 95% of non-SAR missions. They are experts on mission systems, but as to the actual airframe, knoweledges run from "Big fan on top, gas behind me" to guys who could be CDQARs.

Very few are plane captians.

They know how to do PC stuff if needed, but most are not "experts" on it.
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot
We use ours for deck calls in HS as well. And we are trying to send all our new AW's to get their PC qual. Luckily our AWC follows our thinking on that one. Nothing like a good AW1 or AWC in back when your trying to figure out if that slight noise return is a bottomed diesel sub or not. And when doing CSAR, CAL's, Pinnacles in a 60, there is no way we could do that stuff without them.

Although some of our AW's have flown with the other helo squadron out here and refuse to do it again. Its sad that some squadrons view them as just a person in back to run the gear for you, and not an active part of the crew.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
....And we are trying to send all our new AW's to get their PC qual.......Although some of our AW's have flown with the other helo squadron out here and refuse to do it again. .
I don't get what you're saying.....

CO: "AWs will get their PC quals."

AWs: "Aye, Aye Sir!"
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Yeah, the PC/AW debate seems dependent on the squadron. For a while, all AWs were to be PCs at my last squadron. Then the pendulum swung, and the focus was ACTC training, which made sense if they were actually doing the training, but more than once, AWs have been seen to be doing "training" w/ a Maxim and a Playstation. Kind of negates their credibility.
 

H60Gunner

Registered User
Contributor
A'dubs

We use ours for deck calls in HS as well. And we are trying to send all our new AW's to get their PC qual. Luckily our AWC follows our thinking on that one. Nothing like a good AW1 or AWC in back when your trying to figure out if that slight noise return is a bottomed diesel sub or not. And when doing CSAR, CAL's, Pinnacles in a 60, there is no way we could do that stuff without them.

Although some of our AW's have flown with the other helo squadron out here and refuse to do it again. Its sad that some squadrons view them as just a person in back to run the gear for you, and not an active part of the crew.

Nothing wrong with the tactical Dub's getting their PC quals.. Some squadrons have been doing that for years. I believe that most if not all HSL dubs get PC qual'ed at some point. (then I just read Master Bates comment, so maybe not anymore).

As far as being a "Crew Chief" goes, when HS first took on CSAR as a mission, all First Crewmen had to qualify as Crew Chiefs. It was a JQR. Don't know if they are still required to or not.

Cleared left, Cleared right, cleared to land...

And each and every one of them would kiss a fat lady's ass to jump in the water and rescue you! Just to wrap their hairy legs around you and look into your eyes as we swing gracefully in the rotor-wash......:D
 

H60Gunner

Registered User
Contributor
And..

My condolances to the family and friends of the recent mishap.

Fair winds and following seas shipmates. You will be missed.
 

airfrogusmc

Member
Total newbie here. USMC 1973-1977 CH-46 crewchief on D and F models. Squadrons were HMT 204, HMM 164, HMM 165, HMM 263. Great site glad I stumbled in. Never earned my combat wings. The hardest duty I pulled was making sure the beer was cold in the "Po". The biggest thing I missed when I got out was flying.

S/F
Allen
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Total newbie here. USMC 1973-1977 CH-46 crewchief on D and F models. Squadrons were HMT 204, HMM 164, HMM 165, HMM 263. Great site glad I stumbled in. Never earned my combat wings. The hardest duty I pulled was making sure the beer was cold in the "Po". The biggest thing I missed when I got out was flying.

S/F
Allen
Welcome aboard brother... Good to see a crewchief on the board that can attest to just how important we up front think you guys are! PHROGS FOREVER!
 
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