how likely it is to see Rafales operating off a carrier

[keensetofpeeper]

hello all, longtime lurker on this board. got in a big argument over at strategypage about what the likelihood of seeing Fr Rafales operating off a US carrier in a combat situation in the near future. the OP wanted to know if that's something we might see in the future. i argued against the likelihood of that happening, while most people arguing for it were arguing on feasibility/compatibility grounds and not practicality/likelihood. thought i'd come here and ask for opinions of professional naval aviators rather than pointlessly fighting with fanboys. how hard would it be logistically to operate a squadron of Rafales off a carrier for an extended period of time? under what situation might this occur?

 

[HeyJoe]

hello all, longtime lurker on this board. got in a big argument over at strategypage about what the likelihood of seeing Fr Rafales operating off a US carrier in a combat situation in the near future. the OP wanted to know if that's something we might see in the future. i argued against the likelihood of that happening, while most people arguing for it were arguing on feasibility/compatibility grounds and not practicality/likelihood. thought i'd come here and ask for opinions of professional naval aviators rather than pointlessly fighting with fanboys. how hard would it be logistically to operate a squadron of Rafales off a carrier for an extended period of time? under what situation might this occur?

1. Why go to Strategypage in the first place? People tend to argue over there at the drop of the hat and as you observe, most are fanboys anyway so they rarely have their facts right or are obsessed with their favorite aircraft like the Rafale. Why even discuss whether it's logistically feasible as there it is another Strategypage whirlwind of fantasy for folks to flame and rage about?

2. There is no reason for it to occur other than crossdeck ops as shown below. If a French carrier suffered a casualty in which their flightdeck was inop with aircraft in the air, US carriers are compatible enough to recover them (and launch them).

070723-N-6524M-004 MEDITERRANEAN SEA (July 23, 2007) - A French Rafale M combat aircraft performs a catapult-assisted launch from the flight deck of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN 65). The Rafale is the first French aircraft to both launch and recover on an American carrier. Enterprise and embarked Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 1 are currently underway on a scheduled six-month deployment. U.S Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Brandon Morris (RELEASED)

070723-N-5928K-006 MEDITERRANEAN SEA (July 23, 2007) - Chief of French Naval Staff, Amiral Oudot de Dainville, observes a French Rafale M combat aircraft from the French nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle as it lands on the flight deck of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN 65). Enterprise and embarked Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 1 are currently underway on a scheduled six-month deployment. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class N.C. Kaylor (RELEASED)

070412-N-8157C-698 ARABIAN SEA (April 12, 2007) - A French E-2C Hawkeye from the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier French Navy Ship Charles de Gaulle (R 91) performs a touch-and-go on the flight deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74). U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Denny Cantrell (RELEASED)

070412-N-4940H-045 ARABIAN SEA (April 12, 2007) - A French Super-Etendard from the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier French Navy Ship Charles de Gaulle (R 91) performs a touch-and-go landing on the flight deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74). Stennis, as part of the John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group, and Charles de Gaulle, the flagship of Commander, Task Force 473, were operating in the North Arabian Sea conducting bilateral exercises and supporting multi-national ground forces in Afghanistan. U.S Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Adam Henderson (RELEASED)

 

[keensetofpeeper]

1. Why go to Strategypage in the first place? People tend to argue over there at the drop of the hat and as you observe, most are fanboys anyway so they rarely have their facts right or are obsessed with their favorite aircraft like the Rafale. Why even discuss whether it's logistically feasible as there it is another Strategypage whirlwind of fantasy for folks to flame and rage about?

2. There is no reason for it to occur other than crossdeck ops as shown below. If a French carrier suffered a casualty in which their flightdeck was inop with aircraft in the air, US carriers are compatible enough to recover them (and launch them).

1. i'm beginning to realize strategypage is pretty useless
2. that's what i thought

thanks

 

[Single Seat]

Actually, with the Charles De Gaulle (sp?) going into the yards for two years the idea of bringing the French along on has been tossed around. The rumor mill keeps churning.

Personally, I think it'd be pretty cool.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

Actually, with the Charles De Gaulle (sp?) going into the yards for two years the idea of bringing the French along on has been tossed around. The rumor mill keeps churning.

Personally, I think it'd be pretty cool.

Aren't they going to be out here this spring/summer for work ups? I had hear something about the Hawkeyes coming to Norfolk and their fighters going to Oceana. Could be ready-room banter though.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Aren't they going to be out here this spring/summer for work ups? I had hear something about the Hawkeyes coming to Norfolk and their fighters going to Oceana. Could be ready-room banter though.

No strip club or mall in the Tidewater area would be safe!! We had a French Infantry Company train with us in Lejeune (actually, we went offsite to Ft Pickett for the training. Make that "THEY" went offsite, I was the rear det OIC - because I was a mere month and some change away from terminal leave.) and as the MWR officer, I became the defacto French Liason. Set up a bus for them, got them base/local maps, and the ones that spoke English (their liason/interpreter was a reservist that lived in Miami) wanted to know only two things - where's the mall? And, where's the strip club?

 

[Flash]

Actually, with the Charles De Gaulle (sp?) going into the yards for two years the idea of bringing the French along on has been tossed around. The rumor mill keeps churning.

Personally, I think it'd be pretty cool.

Aren't they going to be out here this spring/summer for work ups? I had hear something about the Hawkeyes coming to Norfolk and their fighters going to Oceana. Could be ready-room banter though.

I imagine it they will just be around for workups or an excercise, not a full on cruise, to keep up their currency.

Kind of like the Marines on the 'Lusty' a few months ago.

http://www.bdsw.org/news/170707-Harrier-HMS-Illustrious.html

 

[FLYTPAY]

hello all, longtime lurker on this board. got in a big argument over at strategypage about what the likelihood of seeing Fr Rafales operating off a US carrier in a combat situation in the near future. the OP wanted to know if that's something we might see in the future.

I could not see it happening. The French are not afforded the same intel/security courtesy that our UK/AUS brethren are. It would be a kink in the armor of the Airwing (assuming that the French were not "in the know")

 

[asise]

The french are quite nosy when it comes to intelligence. I believe we got quite upset with them years ago when we flew a B-2 at the paris airshow and they figured out that its stealth ability results in it casting a shadow (of sorts) when you throw enough radiowaves at it. (Someone with facts can feel free to fill in the gaps of that vague story). I do know that when the Raytheon execs go to Paris for the airshow that they essentially bring nothing except the clothes on their back and everything is assumed to be bugged.
So, it's that sort of reputation might discourage the idea of having them on a carrier for an extended period of time.

 

[joshmf]

The french are quite nosy when it comes to intelligence...

Isn't being nosy kind of the point of Intel?

 

[VetteMuscle427]

Isn't being nosy kind of the point of Intel?

Yes, but the point is we might want to guard our secrets a little tighter from the French than others due to their willingness to sell to some unsavory countries.

Although... the Israelis seem to love selling American technology too.

 

[joshmf]

Yes, but the point is we might want to guard our secrets a little tighter from the French than others due to their willingness to sell to some unsavory countries.

Although... the Israelis seem to love selling American technology too.

No, I agree entirely. I just thought it was funny that someone complained about spies being nosy. Maybe British spies are too polite to try and steal our secrets .