How to build your organization

[usmarinemike]

I come here for mentorship sometimes, and I have a question on my mind. It's a leadership question. I would like to hear the opinions of junior officers, but what I would really value is insight from field grade officers.

One big thing that I've always clung to (because it's how I was taught as a young Marine) is that you never send your "dirty laundry" out of the unit on FAPs(range coaches, general's drivers, staff weenie jobs, etc) just to get them away. I have always believed in this because I have always thought that we would be better to hold the unmotivated or draggy ones at home and work on them and push their buttons until they get it right.

Lately I've challenged this belief. Wouldn't it be better to shed those who didn't work out after a period of time; at all levels of the organization? Wouldn't this be best for everybody? The unit gets top performers in the right seats. The performers could really get productive and those in charge could spend their time training the performers instead handling the people who don't belong. The underachievers can move onto another organization where they can perhaps maximize their performance under different conditions.

Thoughts? Can you make a case for both?

 

[eddie]

$$$ ????

 

[FlyMikeFly]

Thoughts? Can you make a case for both? How does being in a military culture change things from the free market?

My thoughts: :banghead_ Are you working on a thesis? Miltary culture vs. free market? Huh? The "dirty laundry" (aka bottom dwellers, undesirables, $hitbags, etc) get FAP'd out to random odd jobs because they have, usually, proven themselves unworthy of continued effort (or call it wasted time) by leaders and mentors. I experienced this on multiple occasions and could tell pretty quick those who could be trained and wanted to be trained, from those who are unmotivated and a plague on unit morale. The ones who show promise and willingness to learn, even a little bit, are worth the time to me. Anywhere you go in the Marine Corps, and especially when attached to a Navy training command (flight school), you'll find the ones who just don't get it. It's frustrating. Hmm...I'm still not clear what discussion you were looking for with this thread, did I come anywhere close?

 

[Brunes]

I concur with your challenging yourself- I haven't done/seen much- but I've been involved in a few discharges so I've thought about this same thing.

I think you had three alternatives in there tho-Not just two-
Keep the shitbags in the unit,
ship them off to other units/jobs, or
seperate them from the service.

Paying them to do a crappy job is never a good investment. So don't keep them in the service. If they seem like they are the right person in the wrong job- That's one thing: Find them a different spot.
Otherwise- Move them out (Out of the service that is). Seems like duty driver or other menial tasks aren't a bad deal all in all for someone who is being punished. (at least from what I've seen)
If they are SA/energy away from the unit/command cadre with their antics- Send them packing-Let them get their own shit in their own sock on someone else's dime/time.

 

[usmarinemike]

My thoughts: :banghead_ Are you working on a thesis? Miltary culture vs. free market? Huh? The "dirty laundry" (aka bottom dwellers, undesirables, $hitbags, etc) get FAP'd out to random odd jobs because they have, usually, proven themselves unworthy of continued effort (or call it wasted time) by leaders and mentors. I experienced this on multiple occasions and could tell pretty quick those who could be trained and wanted to be trained, from those who are unmotivated and a plague on unit morale. The ones who show promise and willingness to learn, even a little bit, are worth the time to me. Anywhere you go in the Marine Corps, and especially when attached to a Navy training command (flight school), you'll find the ones who just don't get it. It's frustrating. Hmm...I'm still not clear what discussion you were looking for with this thread, did I come anywhere close?

Not working on a thesis. Maybe could work as one later down the road though. Yeah, you answered it. I'm presenting what I perceive to be two opposite sides of the coin(now three with Brunes chopping block choice) and asking who thinks which one is better. With all of the insane knowledges we have here I though we could have a substantive discussion on how to make units better.

If you were a squadron commander, what would you do with those who did not contribute to making your squadron the best?

 

[Brunes]

Maybe I took it a bit too far with the chopping block. It depends on what their transgressions against excellence are- Case by Case as always.


If they are just lazy...There is some amount of effort that must be put in to try and show them the error of their ways....but after a while....It burns more time and energy then the return from them.

 

[phrogdriver]

Depends...

Rule #1 Don't ride your best horses 'till they drop.

A lot of leaders don't send their top guys to schools, fun FAPs (like OPFOR duty), etc, because they're "too valuable." 2 probs. 1) The top guys will eventually wear out/say "f--- this" 2) If your org has a "single point of failure" it means YOU are failing as a leader.

Rule #2 Don't do to another unit what you wouldn't want done to yours.

If you are told to give up bodies of MOS X to another line sqdn, don't just think "It's my chance to jettison PFC Scumbag!" Keep your interests in mind, but know that what goes around, comes around.

If those 2 conditions are met, think about:

Is the problem 1 of competence or attitude? If competence, sending him to do ship's laundry for a month isn't going to help. Look for opportunities to train/mentor, e.g. "You're going to spend the next month in Sgt Squaredaway's back pocket." Call this program A.

If attitude, then give him to the bad-deal trolls and see him in a couple of months. Key point---follow-up!!! Go to the NCOIC of the ship's store/potato-peelers/grounds maint/9th-circle-of-hell and ask if PFC Scumbag is rising to the occasion or sinking like a stone. That will greatly inform your future decisions. If he's doing well, visit him and say "Looking fwd to getting you back--I'm going to make you Sgt Squaredaway's assistant on the backside (program A, above)." Call this program B.

If your guy is a complete oxygen thief, then document, counsel, and then document and counsel some more. Formal counselings and pg 11s as req'd. Competency review boards, promotion non-recs, and possibly delinquency-of-duty charges may be your tools/friends.

 

[Birdog8585]

...witty leadership words...

Outstanding outlook. Putting that in the playbook. +1