Hurt ACL at end of first tour(not qual'd yet)

[Brett327]

Bottom line is that we weren't there, we just know Shark Bait's interpretation that the front office prefers him to wait so that he can finish his quals.

Right, we weren't there, and only have what he posted to make sense of the situation. My point stands, if his CO is aware of the extent of his condition (as described to us), then prioritizing quals over getting healthy is probably not the best COA. If Shark Bait hasn't fully communicated the seriousness of his condition to his CO, then that's his own fault.

I seriously doubt that his XO/CO are so manic as to prevent him from going to medical

Based on the stories we've all heard from the SWO world, that doesn't sound so far fetched to me. This isn't a SWO bashing spree, but it is advice based upon what Shark Bait posted. You don't know the facts with any greater fidelity than I do, so why go to all the trouble of writing an elaborate post to tell me that I might be wrong? Jesus fucking Christ. We're trying to help this guy out.

 

[Spekkio]

Right, we weren't there, and only have what he posted to make sense of the situation. My point stands, if his CO is aware of the extent of his condition (as described to us), then prioritizing quals over getting healthy is probably not the best COA. If Shark Bait hasn't fully communicated the seriousness of his condition to his CO, then that's his own fault.

Based on the stories we've all heard from the SWO world, that doesn't sound so far fetched to me. This isn't a SWO bashing spree, but it is advice based upon what Shark Bait posted. You don't know the facts with any greater fidelity than I do, so why go to all the trouble of writing an elaborate post to tell me that I might be wrong? Jesus fucking Christ. We're trying to help this guy out.

Look, I posted before pointing out that the root of this fuck-fuck game is that medical didn't let him get an MRI and see an orthopedist until he went through a year of physical therapy and alternative techniques to make his knee better...which was based on an incomplete medical assessment since they hadn't done an MRI and he hadn't seen someone who has the required education and training to make an assessment of his condition. I've witnessed this occur on two other occasions in a different community. The entering assumption is that you were cleared for active duty so any joint pain is going to first be dealt with a prescription for horse pills and advice to 'take it easy for a few weeks.'

You were the one insisting that "this should never happen" as if the XO/CO had something to do with NAVMED's refusal to shell out $$$ for an MRI and a visit to a specialist. All I'm saying is let's recognize where the root cause of Shark Bait's current conundrum is and that it crosses all designators who have to deal with it. Instead you and several others want to jump straight toward chastising his chain of command and an entire community of officers as being heartless bastards who would rather see Shark Bait end up permanently disabled in the name of a FITREP bullet before they'd let him get surgery. I do think that sounds far-fetched, SWO horror stories or not.

 

[BigRed389]

I don't think this crosses all designators at all.
Medical care is not uniform, and I would go so far as to say Shipboard Sea Duty probably receives the lowest quality of medical care.

If you're ship's company, and even worse, not on a big deck, an E-6/7 IDC is the person who makes the determination whether or not you need higher level care. This isn't to say they uniformly suck, but if you really need care, you're going to have to be pretty persistent about it, which may be hard for an O-1/2 to figure out, especially without anybody to help them out.

Having said that, I have seen shipboard CoCs pull people guys from Physical Therapy regimens to get underway because they held quals that were redlines, and they didn't want to deal with the hassle of trying to pull guys from other ships to meet tasking.
And from the SWO perspective, there is absolutely going to be a tendency to put quals first if the issue isn't flat out disqualifying you from sea duty. Not qualifying on time can seriously screw with your career.

On shore duty, I've had little trouble getting an M.D. if I wanted a second opinion after the Corpsman's diagnosis.

 

[Brett327]

Words

You're missing my point entirely and I'm not going to rehash it for you for a month old thread. If medical is the choke point, great - chalk it up to shitty health care. If his CO is putting quals before a serious health, then that's also wrong.

 

[Spekkio]

I don't think this crosses all designators at all.
Medical care is not uniform, and I would go so far as to say Shipboard Sea Duty probably receives the lowest quality of medical care.

If you're ship's company, and even worse, not on a big deck, an E-6/7 IDC is the person who makes the determination whether or not you need higher level care. This isn't to say they uniformly suck, but if you really need care, you're going to have to be pretty persistent about it, which may be hard for an O-1/2 to figure out, especially without anybody to help them out.

I think you forget that I work on submarines. Every IDC I've ever worked with will readily pass any marginal case to the MTF, which means they see an LT general practitioner. That doesn't change the fact that *that* person will be very resistant to passing you along to a specialist or giving you an MRI out of general policy.

And from the SWO perspective, there is absolutely going to be a tendency to put quals first if the issue isn't flat out disqualifying you from sea duty. Not qualifying on time can seriously screw with your career.

I'm not sure what your point is here. If you were the CO/XO and you had an LTJG with a condition that wasn't military disqualifying, would you leave him/her in-port to make other special arrangements or would you say great, you're coming underway to do the job you were hired to do?

On shore duty, I've had little trouble getting an M.D. if I wanted a second opinion after the Corpsman's diagnosis.

My experience is that I have easier access to better care on sea duty, especially if I need antibiotics. The IDC can pull strings to get you in so that you can meet ship's tasking, which gives you head of line privileges for things that take months to get an appointment for on shore duty.

 

[Pags]

If military medicine isn't addressing someone's issues adequately then CO/XO should engage with MTF leadership. I saw it happen at every command I was at; CO's had to remind MTFs of their job vis a vis the deploying fleet.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'm also at 10 years in right now so I'm not super worried about making O-4 since i can retire at O-3E if that makes a difference in the transfer game.

That might be great for you personally, but BUPERS doesn't care that you are not worried about making O-4. They are worried, which is all that matters. If your lat transfer induces adverse timing that precludes you from reasonably making "career milestones", it isn't worth their time to send you.

 

[SharkBait]

I know everyone loves a good SWO bashing here, but there's 3 sides to every story. SharkBait has been going to medical for 12-18 months (which is it?)

Closer to 18 but I went to multiple treatment facilities so at this specific one its a little split.

Was that merely a question asked by the XO/CO or direction?

It was a question, ultimatly they ended up supporting my decision.

Did Shark Bait respond by telling them about how serious his knee issue was and that it took forever to see a surgeon?

yup

Did he tell them and the ship's doc 6 months ago that he needed this? A year ago?

I told the IDC, that was my mistake, in my previous experiences E-7's were pretty reliable.

Do they know he's falling down ladders, or do they just know that he has some pain?

The DH's were more concerned with me being at work than at physical therapy, I should have brought it higher up the COC at the time.

Were they watching Shark Bait run on the treadmill and do squats last month before this all came out?

Nope, cant even run with my legs like that, the IDC just told me to "deal with it with Ibuprofen for the rest of my life"

After the collisions in 7th fleet a lot of CO's took time off from qualifying anyone, so I understand any hesitation on their part. The main point of the post was to get an opinion on what direction I should take from more experienced people, not bash my CoC even though I feel like my lack of bringing up the chain caused more damage to my knee than needed.


All in all it just ended up being an IDC who didnt want to push treatment options to off ship, a MTF who took a whole lot of time to get their portion done and an erratic ship schedule/DH not allowing proper treatment. So for those reading this as a lessons learned, bitch way more than you want to or else you could end up crippled.