instructor pilot tour

[dodge]

how is being an instructor looked upon as far as career enhancement goes? good/bad/neutral?

When you do a tour as an IP is it better to instruct in primary/advanced/the RAG?

Along the same lines, does it make a difference whether your an IP in TW-6, (flying the snfos around*) or an IP in one of the sna trawings.

I'm just curious. Its something i'd probably want to do for a shore tour. It looks like a good deal for pilots since you stay in an aircraft which probably means the navy has a problem with it somehow.

EDIT: *not trying to offend snfos.

 

[TheBubba]

*edit* Dodge, no harm, no foul.

 

[scoober78]

Don't know of course...but I've heard...and it makes sense that the RAG is the place to go...flying your own aircraft, staying/networking within your community etc...

Anyone with some experience here???

 

[Penguin]

Generally speaking, the FRS instructors are the best from their respective communities. In HSL, they are usually the #1 or #2 LTs coming out of their fleet squadrons. This should give you an idea as to how desireable those FRS orders are.

 

[Harrier Dude]

If you're still a captain (or navy lt), going to the TRACOM (i.e. white jets) is fine. It won't really hurt or help your career. You'll get lots of hours, but fall behind tactically in your own community. Nothing that can't be overcome, but there's lots of rust to be knocked off. If you go there as a major or LCdr, you have pretty much ended your career, depending on how much time you have left before the LtCol/Cmdr board to make up for it.

Going to the RAG is good in general, but there are some drawbacks. First, you're not "in the fleet". As far as the USMC goes, that may be viewed as "not having MOS credibility" since you need to have time as a department head IN THE FLEET to be more competitive for promotion. Again, if you're still junior, it will have only positive to neutral effect on your career. Second, even though you're still in your community, your truly tactical skills atrpohe since you spend a lot of time doing admin stuff (fams, forms, raked range, etc). You generally have the oldest jets in the fleet that lack all of the gucci upgrades to them. Lastly, as mentioned before, since the RAG hand picks the IPs in the squadron from a lot of people that want it, your competition is pretty stiff for key billets and your fitreps are affected by inflation.

The good side of the RAG is lots of hours in your jet, you get to retain all of your quals (div lead, LATI, FCF, etc) that you would lose at the TRACOM, and you get to know just about everybody in your MOS.

I was a RAG IP, and overall I think it hurt me career-wise. My career counselor told me I'm not competitive for LtCol because I lack MOS credibility, despite being an MOS instructor, NATOPS program manager, instrument/NATOPS checker, and IUT instructor. He said I needed a department head in the fleet (which is where I'm at now).

Personally, I think the guy is full of crap, but I'll let you know in a year and a half.

 

[dodge]

Dude... Our IP's don't just "fly us around". They actually instruct us in the air and on the ground. In fact, through primary and intermediate, they provide most of our instruction.

Trust me... I don't just "get flown around". You're a helo guy... you should understand the crew concept.

For any offended snfos, I was trying to clarify the distinction i was making between being a TW-6 IP where the IP does the flying and one from 4 and 5 where the student does most of the flying. Perhaps i should a been a little more clear but i was going for brevity. You are being flown around but I didn't say anywhere in my post that that you guys "just 'get flown around'".

Trust me...It wasn't meant to be deragatory towards any snfo. Sorry if you took it that way.

@Harrier Dude

Like Scoober said, I've always heard the Rag is the place to be because you're flying your aircraft. Never heard that spin on things. Thanks.

 

[ChunksJR]

how is being an instructor looked upon as far as career enhancement goes? good/bad/neutral?

Good. Producing is what you're supposed to do coming out of the HSC world. The RAG is preferable, but not always availible (usually a drug deal between the XOs of your fleet squadron and the RAG squadron) and coming from HC or HS right now, it's not easy as we merge communities.

When you do a tour as an IP is it better to instruct in primary/advanced/the RAG?

As for being an HT IP...I LOVE THIS GAME. I've flown 40 hrs in the last month...that's low for an HT instructor...I never flew this much in the 60S unless I was deployed...and it's great flying...you know your better instructors???? They're the one to talk to about this because it is better than flying in the RAG could ever be. Sure I can't show you a Bow-on (270-deg buttonhook) approach to a hookman, but I can do out and ins like it's going out of style...and it's great. The RAG can't even keep 3 birds up at once right now in Norfolk, and I know that my compadres ranked above me are getting their master's degree...and I don't care. I'm not going to take the time away from instructing (which is an absolute blast) to do that and I love having that option down here. When you fly a fleet aircraft there's a lot of pressure...I can't really describe it, but everyone wants to be "that guy." The HTs are great because EVERYONE IS DOING THEIR OWN THING. Some are getting out to fly, some are getting out never to fly again, but either way, at least at my squadron, we give a damn about what we do on a daily basis. It's easy to get lost in that in the fleet every once in a while. But here, we see you studs everyday and it reminds us why we're here. It's great.

Along the same lines, does it make a difference whether your an IP in TW-6, (flying the snfos around*) or an IP in one of the sna trawings.

I would say, for quality of life...don't go back to the VTs. I know that there are a few who enjoy it, but really, a fixed-wing world is a fixed-wing world...and being able to hover...remember, is priceless.

A few flight options my helo peers from HSC-26 picked up:

One transitioned to Jet training at Kingsville (or Meridian...).
One is instructing Marines in the HUEY Rag in Camp Pendelton, CA.
About 5 of us are HT bubbas (all here)
About 5 went to the RAG (Norfolk and San Diego)
About 2 went to the Wing Weapons School (occastionally training at the RAG in Norfolk)
One went to train NFOs in VT-4, couldn't aeromedically adapt to the T-6 (airsick all the time) and came back to HT-18
2 went Station SAR (not a career enhancer)
1 went to C-12s (not a career enhancer)

It looks like a good deal for pilots since you stay in an aircraft which probably means the navy has a problem with it somehow.

You couldn't be more wrong. The Navy is proud of all of it's people and every day I go to work, I can't be more proud of what I do and what I did to fool them into paying me to do it...

 

[phrogdriver]

The Navy made a big distinction between FRS duty and TRACOM. A lot of the Navy IPs had chips on their shoulders because they got Pensacola/Milton.

In the Marines, at least on the 46 side, there wasn't much difference, if any. It wasn't as if we sent all shining stars to the FRS. Pensacola was actually harder to get at that time.

 

[S.O.B.]

I don’t know how much stock I put in this but I have yet to find an exception in my community. I had a C.O. tell me once that if you want to screen for command “don’t fly anything that’s orange and white.” Having said that; I think you should do what you want to do. Is the guy that went to the FRS and didn’t complete his JPME or get his masters going to more competitive then the guy that did but decided to fly NFOs around in Pensacola?...................... Probably, but the guy in Pensacola had more fun.

 

[scoober78]

I had a C.O. tell me once that if you want to screen for command “don’t fly anything that’s orange and white.”

I don't know...(and I mean that literally), but the current VT-28 CO was a former instructor of the year at VT-28 as a JO...Exceptions to every rule I guess. Helo guy as well.

 

[gregsivers]

I don't know...(and I mean that literally), but the current VT-28 CO was a former instructor of the year at VT-28 as a JO...Exceptions to every rule I guess. Helo guy as well.

He's awesome by the way. The checkout debrief with him is fun.

 

[S.O.B.]

I don't know...(and I mean that literally), but the current VT-28 CO was a former instructor of the year at VT-28 as a JO...Exceptions to every rule I guess. Helo guy as well.

I should have clarified; I meant screening for Operational Command. Special Command would be great although I’m not sure if you can get O6 out of it. Don’t get me wrong I could care less, I personally will be long gone before O6 and Special Command seems to me like it would be a lot more fun then operational.

 

[e6bflyer]

I should have clarified; I meant screening for Operational Command. Special Command would be great although I’m not sure if you can get O6 out of it. Don’t get me wrong I could care less, I personally will be long gone before O6 and Special Command seems to me like it would be a lot more fun then operational.

I think the thing to be gleaned from this thread is that it all depends on what community/platform you are flying. For F-18 guys, instructing in the T-34 can be the kiss of death. For other guys it is different. In my community, the 2 pilot skippers that I had while operational were both VT instructors as JO's. With the limited amount of FRS billets available in the E-6 world, the next best thing is tracom. Besides, the vast majority of our FRS guys get sick of the community and the Navy and get out (or maybe it has something to do with that 737 type they get, hmmm....).
So....I would talk to your front office and detailer and see how tracom fits for your community. I am instructing in the VT's now, and I 100% love it, as does everyone else in my squadron. I don't think it really matters if you are a VT or HT instructor as far as that goes, it is all a numbers game (how many JO's are you competing against). Good luck, it is a huge decision.

 

[Gatordev]

I think the thing to be gleaned from this thread is that it all depends on what community/platform you are flying. For F-18 guys, instructing in the T-34 can be the kiss of death. For other guys it is different. In my community, the 2 pilot skippers that I had while operational were both VT instructors as JO's. With the limited amount of FRS billets available in the E-6 world, the next best thing is tracom. Besides, the vast majority of our FRS guys get sick of the community and the Navy and get out (or maybe it has something to do with that 737 type they get, hmmm....).
So....I would talk to your front office and detailer and see how tracom fits for your community. I am instructing in the VT's now, and I 100% love it, as does everyone else in my squadron. I don't think it really matters if you are a VT or HT instructor as far as that goes, it is all a numbers game (how many JO's are you competing against). Good luck, it is a huge decision.

Bingo. There's so much Kool-aid flowing in this thread. I second the "it really depends on the community." I can think of 5 different cases recently where the #1 or #2 guy didn't go to the RAG and went to the Tracom because that's what they wanted, and several cases of people who have a "history" w/in the community that went to the RAG because there were spots available. As Phrog said, for helo guys on the Navy side, VTs is pretty competitve (for some communities, anyway) because they have so many VP guys coming through.

As for going to the RAG as IP, I agree it's certainly beneficial since you stay plugged into your community and often times the CO becomes the Commodore.

 

[S.O.B.]

I went to the list of command web sites and tried every helicopter squadron. I found one CO/XO that went to the HTs, two that went to PG school and the other 20 or so were FRS IPs. Granted many of the sites didn’t work. You can draw your own conclusions. I don’t think it’s “cool aide” as much as it’s a statistic. Go to the FRS and you will have a much greater chance of screening for CO. Of course I looked at unrestricted types only but I bet it's not far off espicially for the P3 community.

Also the XO of HC-4 went to VX1.

http://www.navy.mil/links/alpha.asp