Intel/Supply Chances

[Billtnash55]

Hey everyone. I'd really appreciate your thoughts on my chances at either Intel or Supply and what kind of scores I need to make on the ASTB/OAR. My recruiter says I'll be competitive but I'd like to get a more definite sense.

UnderGrad GPA: 3.338 (University of Texas)
Law School GPA: 3.13 (Marquette)
Legal Internships: Coca-Cola offices in Cario, Egypt; US Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of Regional Counsel; Wisconsin National Guard Staff Judge Advocate
Rec Letters (5): 2 JAG lieutenant Colonels (Army/National Guard); 1 JAG Colonel (Air National Guard); law school professor; and Congresswoman, but I don't know her personally
Leadership: President of two law societies (Alternative Dispite Resolution & Internaional law)
Other: Certificates in ADR (Negotiation/Mediaton) & Litigation; Moot Court & Law Review, although perhaps not relevant for Intel or Supply; National Honors Society most of undergrad; Co-founded The Lions Club International, UT Chapter; varsity football in high school, for whatever that's worth.

I'm also applying for the JAG Corps. with multiple branches, but it's really competitive. I plan to take the ASTB/OAR in about a month and, if JAG doesn't work out, would give Navy Intel or Supply serious consideration, should that opportunity present itself.

Thanks.

Bill T.

 

[Billtnash55]

Oh, and I was a liberal arts major in undergrad.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Since I don't want to assume anything: How old are you? Are you trying to go active or reserve? What service branches are you considering?

You mention the ASTB. I'm 99% sure this test is only for aspiring aviators, so Intel, Supply, and JAG don't need it.

Take my opinion with a brick of salt, but... I suspect your chances of Intel or Supply are far lower than JAG. Intel and Supply DCO selection is super competitive - perhaps moreso than JAG; not sure on the selection rates.

None of your experience appears very relevant to Intel or Supply.

All-source intelligence analysis writing and legal writing are just... different. I could go into detail, but I'll let more knowledgeable members expand on this.

Also, knowing how to write acquisition contracts from the legal side won't make you a better Supply officer. You will need to understand and articulate the economic and industrial principles behind the contract, why it makes business sense, how to evaluate a make/ buy/ rely decision, etc. Suppos don't need to be contracting experts - they can lean on existing contract templates, civilian contracting officers, OPNAV guidance, or (when in doubt) get legal advice from JAG. And don't neglect the logistics side of Supply - writing a contract is a tiny part of the overall logistics process. You'll have to participate in managing the whole maritime supply chain. A Lean Six Sigma and PMP are more useful here than a Bar license.

If you still want to apply, go for it! But you'd probably want to go get LORs from members of the community to which you're applying (this is required for DCO but not for OCS. Either way, it helps to tell your "story" to the board. If all your LORs are from JAG folks and you submit a package for Intel, it doesn't paint a compelling picture).

P.S. Is your goal to become a JAG officer, or become a military officer as soon as possible? If you want to become JAG, I would re-apply for JAG until you get selected. This might just mean working for several years as an attorney first. But if you just want to be an officer soon, I'd look at all the service branches and target under-manned career fields for which you are qualified.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Hey everyone. I'd really appreciate your thoughts on my chances at either Intel or Supply and what kind of scores I need to make on the ASTB/OAR. My recruiter says I'll be competitive but I'd like to get a more definite sense.

UnderGrad GPA: 3.338 (University of Texas)
Law School GPA: 3.13 (Marquette)
Legal Internships: Coca-Cola offices in Cario, Egypt; US Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of Regional Counsel; Wisconsin National Guard Staff Judge Advocate
Rec Letters (5): 2 JAG lieutenant Colonels (Army/National Guard); 1 JAG Colonel (Air National Guard); law school professor; and Congresswoman, but I don't know her personally
Leadership: President of two law societies (Alternative Dispite Resolution & Internaional law)
Other: Certificates in ADR (Negotiation/Mediaton) & Litigation; Moot Court & Law Review, although perhaps not relevant for Intel or Supply; National Honors Society most of undergrad; Co-founded The Lions Club International, UT Chapter; varsity football in high school, for whatever that's worth.

I'm also applying for the JAG Corps. with multiple branches, but it's really competitive. I plan to take the ASTB/OAR in about a month and, if JAG doesn't work out, would give Navy Intel or Supply serious consideration, should that opportunity present itself.

Thanks.

Bill T.

I would go for JAG first since it looks like you have geared your application that direction at this point, but to be honest if things are the same as they are just a few years ago you are probably a long shot for USN JAG, the pick ups for JAG a few years ago had near perfect GPA's

Your GPA's are low for what is looked at for Supply and Intel (both rarely pick up anyone that list them #3) but your JD would be looked on favorably by Intel, should JAG be a no I would get some LOR's from professors, past employers, people that have known you for a long time.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Since I don't want to assume anything: How old are you? Are you trying to go active or reserve? What service branches are you considering?

You mention the ASTB. I'm 99% sure this test is only for aspiring aviators, so Intel, Supply, and JAG don't need it.

Take my opinion with a brick of salt, but... I suspect your chances of Intel or Supply are far lower than JAG. Intel and Supply DCO selection is super competitive - perhaps moreso than JAG; not sure on the selection rates.

None of your experience appears very relevant to Intel or Supply.

All-source intelligence analysis writing and legal writing are just... different. I could go into detail, but I'll let more knowledgeable members expand on this.

Also, knowing how to write acquisition contracts from the legal side won't make you a better Supply officer. You will need to understand and articulate the economic and industrial principles behind the contract, why it makes business sense, how to evaluate a make/ buy/ rely decision, etc. Suppos don't need to be contracting experts - they can lean on existing contract templates, civilian contracting officers, OPNAV guidance, or (when in doubt) get legal advice from JAG. And don't neglect the logistics side of Supply - writing a contract is a tiny part of the overall logistics process. You'll have to participate in managing the whole maritime supply chain. A Lean Six Sigma and PMP are more useful here than a Bar license.

If you still want to apply, go for it! But you'd probably want to go get LORs from members of the community to which you're applying (this is required for DCO but not for OCS. Either way, it helps to tell your "story" to the board. If all your LORs are from JAG folks and you submit a package for Intel, it doesn't paint a compelling picture).

P.S. Is your goal to become a JAG officer, or become a military officer as soon as possible? If you want to become JAG, I would re-apply for JAG until you get selected. This might just mean working for several years as an attorney first. But if you just want to be an officer soon, I'd look at all the service branches and target under-manned career fields for which you are qualified.

I agree, I don't think DCO Supply or Intel are going to be a realistic shot, even JAG is very hard, it is rarely talked about but when it comes to all designators it is probably the hardest to get in to, and it is essentially one and done, never seen a person who was turned down once ever get in.

LOR's from people that are in the community is more of a DCO thing, AD looks for LOR's from people that have supervised in a professional or school environment.

 

[Billtnash55]

Thanks for the advice and perspective. I'm 28 and I want to do active duty. I've applied for Army & Air Force JAG and intend to apply for Supply/Intel for Navy and Air Force. As NavyOffRec mentioned, getting selected for Navy JAG is tough and, knowing I had virtually no shot, I didn't apply. Frankly, I have little shot at Air Force JAG but went ahead and applied just because. Army, on the other hand, told me I was close to making selection list last year so I kept in contact with my FSO, strengthened my application, and gave it my best shot again for the November Board FY2016. My interview went well again this year and my new FSO told me I was one of his "top guys." I can't quantify what all this means as far as my chances, but I think they'll at least give my application packet decent consideration.

I knew I had some weaknesses in my Navy Intel/supply application, particularly my GPAs. When I voiced this concern to my recruiter, however, he told me my GPAs were "very competitive for your age and will work just fine." (For whatever it's worth my undergrad GPA is actually a 3.3889, closer to a 3.4. It was late when I wrote the original thread and I confused it with my 3L year law school GPA). Like NavyOffRec, he said the JD would help, although he didn't specify if it would be stronger for intell or supply.

My recruiter also said I would need to take the ASTB/OAR but not the aviation sections. However, from what I gather, that's essentially just the OAR.

Looking forward, my goal is to be an officer in the military ASAP. I love the idea of challenging myself everyday and having a career with a strong sense of purpose. I'd prefer JAG, but intelligence and supply sound really cool and I think they would translate well in the civilian world.

My recruiter has been great but I wanted to get a better sense of my chances so I can manage my expectations and career choices. I know there are much better applicants than me but I've worked hard and I think I have a few strengths working for me. I'll definitely give the OAR everything I've got and apply but I understand my chances of being accepted at this point aren't great.

Thanks.

Bill T.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Have you looked into Marine Corps OCS? Compared to the Navy, you might have an easier time getting chosen for Law MOS coming out of Marine OCS. And you still get to train at the Naval Justice School in Newport (after Marine OCS and TBS).

 

[Billtnash55]

I have, but from what I understand Marine officers must be younger than 28 at the time of commissioning.

Do you know off-hand of any other officer positions and branches that are under-manned right now and that I might be qualified for?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I have, but from what I understand Marine officers must be younger than 28 at the time of commissioning.

Do you know off-hand of any other officer positions and branches that are under-manned right now and that I might be qualified for?

depending on how much past 28 you are you might be a bit late applying for Supply, most USN OCS designators have a cutoff of 27 or 29 as a "commissioned by" date.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Is an age waiver a possibility for Marine OCS?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Is an age waiver a possibility for Marine OCS?

most services are pretty firm on max age requirements, unless a person is prior service then they have processes in place for that.

 

[Hammer10k]

Bill,

I'm a 3L at Georgia State and just went through the Navy recruiting process for aviation. I didn't send out any JAG apps. I will say without any knowledge outside my recent experience that you will be a quality candidate for intel/supply if you do well on the OAR. That's pure speculation because it seems like the Navy is re-upping on young officers after the big budget cuts from the last few years. I was picked up quick with a 3.25 undergrad GPA and a low law school GPA.

The OAR isn't bad if you've honed your study habits. I got a couple OAR/ASTB guides off Amazon and did well after a week of studying. The questions in math/reading/science range from super easy to very difficult, but there are only 20~ questions per section so its more of collecting the points where you can (exam strategy stuff).

Best of luck.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

That's pure speculation because it seems like the Navy is re-upping on young officers after the big budget cuts from the last few years. I was picked up quick with a 3.25 undergrad GPA and a low law school GPA.

budget issues don't affect new accession billets.

being picked up aviation with recent 90% selection rates is a whole different ballgame than Supply or IDC with around 10% select rates