Landing in 0 visibility

[Raptor2216]

Is there any such thing as doing an instrument landing in low or no visibility on a carrier or do they just ground all flight ops in such bad weather? How many hours of instrument training do you have to complete by the time you are flying jets or by the time you are doing landings on carriers? Is there any difference between the methods and procedures the military uses, which are different from civil aviation? Are all military pilots FAA certified?

 

[Fly Navy]

That's a decent question for Airwarriors.

As I'm not experienced in carrier ops, I'll let the fleet guys answer...

 

[SuperFly]

I'm not an LSO, and I only have about 150 traps, but I have been on a night straight-in approach (Case III) where I broke out at 1/4 of a mile around 180' feet. If you add the height of the carrier, 40 feet, then it was about 140' feet above the flight deck. Probably somewhere from the IM (in the middle) to IC (in close) position. 200 feet is your typical HAT (height above touchdown) for any precision approach (PAR, ILS) or the "lowest you can go without the runway environment in sight." If you don't, then you have to execute a missed approach.

During carrier ops we use what is called ACLS, kinda something like ILS. The mins for a ACLS approach are 200' and 1/4nm but it is really up to the LSOs to how low they want to bring you in. At 3/4 of a mile, if you don't see the ship, instead of calling the ball, you call "Clara Ship." This tells him you don't see the ship or fresnal lens at all. He will more than likely call "Paddles contact, continue." When you see the ball you just call "ball" and the LSO will echo "Roger Ball"

One other thing is that during good wx carrier ops, we fly without our landing light on, but when the weather gets bad (3/4 vis), the LSOs make us turn them on so they can see us even though we can't see the ship.

 

[SteveG75]

Last cruise, weather rolled in and even with landing lights on (daytime), the boat could only get 7 jets onboard out of 20+ attempts. We ended up diverting 350 miles to Iwo Jima with 6 other jets and spending the night there.

Here is my article:
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/approach/issues/dec03/BlueWater.htm

 

[scotty008]

Very interesting article... thanks for posting. Can anyone shed some light on how the ACLS works?

 

[SteveG75]

ACLS (Automatic Carrier Landing System) is the SPN-42 or SPN-46. It is basically a data link system that allows the carrier to track the aircraft and give it steering commands. These steering commands are relayed to the pilot via a needles display that shows glideslope and lineup deviations. Since the carrier is tracking the aircraft, only a max of two aircraft can recieve steering commands at once (if both channels are working). When the carrier "drops lock", you lose ACLS and hopefully are inside 3/4 mile and flying the ball. Otherwise all you have is ICLS (bullseye) which is not stabilized in pitch and roll.

It is possible with ACLS to couple the autopilot to the ACLS to allow the datalink to fly the aircraft. This also requires working auto throttles to keep the aircraft at the right approach speed. When executing a Case III (night/IMC approach) there are a couple of ACLS modes.

Mode 3 - No ACLS presentation to the pilot. If CATCC can lock on to the aircraft, they will give verbal commands (basically a PAR).
Mode 2 - Pilot flies in accordance with visual presentation of needles
Mode 1A - Coupled down to 200 feet and then pilot takes over.
Mode 1 - Coupled to touchdown.

Hornets like to fly Mode 1 approaches and it works well with their digital flight control systems. Prowlers are only cleared for Mode 1A and we didn't do that anyway. Mode 2's for us all the time.

 

[petescheu]

Yeah Mode 1 is pretty ca$h money. Too bad I'll never get to use that for many years.

 

[ChunksJR]

Hit "Automatic Approach" to a hover 50' above the deck...then dial it down...Easy!

~D

 

[wink]

Early 80's NORPAC in March. Cold, foggy and snowy. Launched around 0300 in true WOXOF. Sat on the waist and couldn't see the planes on the bow. Long story featuring two other Hoovers, an Intruder with a buddy store, a KA-6 and a Hummer. We actually flew a couple approaches down the BRC where the LSOs said they could hear us but couldn't see us pass right over head. One Intruder and two Hoovers tanked and went to Adak, well over hour divert as I recall. Landed at dawn at bingo fuel with wx at mins. The Hawkeye couldn't get aboard three different CVs in the BG. Bailout ment certain death in the arctic water at night. They latched him up and he flew a Mode 1 to trap and didn't see the ship until touch down. I'll never forget their callsign, Liberty Bell. Though I was listening to dead men. ACLS mode 1 worked great though.

 

[nittany03]

One of the IPs in VT-9 has a similar story. Can't remember the details, but he said three times he's trapped on the boat without seeing it. He said his knees were so weak afterward he had to shut down in the wires and get a tow . . . he literally couldn't taxi the jet.

 

[Blacky]

Early 80's NORPAC in March. Cold, foggy and snowy. Launched around 0300 in true WOXOF. Sat on the waist and couldn't see the planes on the bow. Long story featuring two other Hoovers, an Intruder with a buddy store, a KA-6 and a Hummer. We actually flew a couple approaches down the BRC where the LSOs said they could hear us but couldn't see us pass right over head. One Intruder and two Hoovers tanked and went to Adak, well over hour divert as I recall. Landed at dawn at bingo fuel with wx at mins. The Hawkeye couldn't get aboard three different CVs in the BG. Bailout ment certain death in the arctic water at night. They latched him up and he flew a Mode 1 to trap and didn't see the ship until touch down. I'll never forget their callsign, Liberty Bell. Though I was listening to dead men. ACLS mode 1 worked great though.

Not to be a buzzkill or anything on your story, but since when did Hawkeyes have Mode 1 capability? Unless they removed the coupling capability at some point, we can't do them. Maybe he flew needles all the way to touchdown. A much more likely story seeing that everyone knows that Hawkeye pilots are the best because they actually know how to fly without a computer.

 

[wink]

Not to be a buzzkill or anything on your story, but since when did Hawkeyes have Mode 1 capability? Unless they removed the coupling capability at some point, we can't do them. Maybe he flew needles all the way to touchdown. A much more likely story seeing that everyone knows that Hawkeye pilots are the best because they actually know how to fly without a computer.

I thought I heard them set him up for the mode 1. You telling me that E-2s can't even fly a mode 1A, no data link at all? I assure you it happened. If it is true that the Hummer has no auto land function at all, I'll simply have to change my story to include a good bit more praise for the pilot, because it was literally, a zero zero trap at night, on a pitching deck on the arctic ocean in the winter.

 

[Schnugg]

During OEF sorties, we flew our Hornets on Mode 1 approaches if they were bringing back a JDAM or other heavy ordnance they did not drop. We had some a/c at 2.5 first pass on the ball. Well below Tank or Bingo for our location off Pakistan. Even waved off a/c in front of them to give them low state priority on the ball.
Mode 1 got them aboard every time, first time. Pilot got credit for the night pass (if night) for currency, but not the grade.

Now as a fully qualified ready room PLAT LSO (take a deep breath, pull up pants over gut and rub belly and stretch), the darn plane was just rock steady all the way down to touchdown..Amazing stuff.

r/
G

 

[Blacky]

I thought I heard them set him up for the mode 1. You telling me that E-2s can't even fly a mode 1A, no data link at all? I assure you it happened. If it is true that the Hummer has no auto land function at all, I'll simply have to change my story to include a good bit more praise for the pilot, because it was literally, a zero zero trap at night, on a pitching deck on the arctic ocean in the winter.

No, you will get needles, but no coupling. No auto land. It's not a toy a/c for Pete's sake!

 

[wink]

No, you will get needles, but no coupling. No auto land. It's not a toy a/c for Pete's sake!

Whaaat?! The Hoover and Turkey are?

I know it is an unlikely scenario, but can someone advise whether the Hummer once had autoland, say in 1983, and it has since lost it? I swear I even told the story to a E-2 guy I was flying with in the airline and he didn't correct me. Are you E-2 guys great pilots and very polite as well? A-4s waved E-2s in the dark ages, If he could pull himself away from the lime cutting board he could clear this up.