Law school options?

[BrandonJ1780]

I'm heading to LS this fall and wanted to see if anyone could shoot me some good info on applicable commissioning programs (if any)--I'm 25, 28 when I finish--would like to know if a J.D. looks any better on an OCS app for Intel, but if there's any way to for the Navy to help me while I'm in school, that's fine by me. It might be heresy to some, but I'd prefer Intel or anything aviation related over the JAG Corps...making a run right at OCS right now won't work, packet wouldn't be as competitive as I'd like....thanks all, I'll keep looking around to see what I can find out...

 

[TXHusker05]

You might be a bit too old to do anything in a warfare community by the time you graduate. The only commissioning program open to you now will be OCS or a Direct Commission into the JAG Corps. If you are taking all the time to go to Law School, you should probably go JAG. Obviously the extra school experience might help for intel but as for a commissioning program, those will be the only ones available to you.

 

[esday1]

I can tell you a little bit from the Marine side, although I think the Navy programs are pretty similar. Without an active duty background, you're not going to get much in the way of financial help from the Navy for law school. For officers who have already been on active duty for a few years there's FLEP, which will pay for law school and keep you on active duty while you go. It's a great deal, but you need to be in already for at least two years to apply, and since it's competitive, probably more than that to get accepted into the program. If you go direct commission as a JAG, they won't pay for tuition but they will treat your time in law school as "constructive active duty," which means that in the future it will count for pay and promotions as if you had been on active duty that whole time (so you'd start after law school as an O-2 with 3 years of service time). You can get some extra money to pay back loans after you finish your initial service obligation through the JACP program (LSEDS in the Marines). Here's some info on that: http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourcesContent/0,13964,30970--0,00.html
http://neds.daps.dla.mil/directives/7220_10.pdf
For Navy JAG, you'd direct commission, which means you'd go through an abbreviated Officer Indoctrination School in Newport rather than OCS. There's no direct commissioning on the Marine side- we go through the same OCS/TBS as the future grunts.

I'm not sure about how the JD would affect your intel selection, but if I were in your place I'd think carefully about whether you want to assume that law school debt if you don't want to go into the JAG corps (although I admit I've toyed around with the idea of going for a ground MOS at TBS a few times myself). You can be too old to go into a warfare community, but you can still go to law school in your 30's. If what you're looking for is a degree that will help you out to get an intel package, you might look into a shorter master's program (national security, international relations, something like that) that will involve less debt and probably would be more relevant to intel than learning a lot of torts, contracts, property, etc.

 

[BrandonJ1780]

good words

TxHusker05 and Esday1,thanks guys. I'm pretty set on law school, but maybe I'm not giving JAG a good enough look. Maybe I'm just bitter because I heard it's really not like the TV show...Seriously though, the debt thing (on top of undergrad) is a legit concern, so I might look around at some of the master's programs mentioned and consider that for a later app. We'll see. Thanks again, and best of luck.

 

[Thisguy]

If you'll consider JAG, look at the following.

http://www.jag.navy.mil/Careers/CareersSP.htm

http://www.jag.navy.mil/Careers/CareersFAQ3.htm#10

Otherwise, I don't know anyone who has a JD and is in a designator that only requires a Bachelors

 

[esday1]

TxHusker05 and Esday1,thanks guys. I'm pretty set on law school, but maybe I'm not giving JAG a good enough look. Maybe I'm just bitter because I heard it's really not like the TV show...Seriously though, the debt thing (on top of undergrad) is a legit concern, so I might look around at some of the master's programs mentioned and consider that for a later app. We'll see. Thanks again, and best of luck.

I didn't mean to try to dissuade you from going to law school! Maybe you should try to talk to some JAGs and find out a little bit more about what they do. Even if you don't really spend all your time roundhouse kicking terrorists in the face and flirting with Catherine Bell, it can be a pretty sweet job. You would still spend a shiatload of time in court compared with your law school classmates, and I can say now with a little bit of experience with the clinic programs at my school that going to court and arguing real cases can seriously kick ass. Even though every now and then I do get crazy ideas about switching into an MOS that involves more stuff blowing up (thanks to Marine infantry brainwashing), I'm still pretty damn psyched to be going into JAG after I graduate.
There are plenty of lawyers involved in intel work, however. I had a professor last semester who was a lawyer and an intel O in the Navy reserves for many years and is now a federal appellate judge. So, it's possible, it just might not be that easy to combine right off the bat as you were suggesting earlier. But the opportunities will be there in a few years.

 

[TXHusker05]

esday is right, if you go to law school and join the Navy (or Marine Corps) JAG Corps you are going to be light years ahead of some of your fellow law school grads. While they are doing legal briefs as a junior lawyer in some big law firm, maybe trying a case here and there, you as a Navy lawyer are thrown into the thick of it almost immediately. If you are accepted for a direct commission, you'll attend a 6 week officer indoc course and then commissioned as a Lieutenant J.G. Your first JAG tour would be at an NLSO or TSO ashore and you will immediately be trying cases. Eventually in your career you will most likely be assigned to a ship in the fleet. Representing the crew of your ship, helping them with their legal needs from assisting making wills to trying cases at sea. You are also the primary advisor to the ships captain on the rules of engagement. And that is still as a junior officer.

I recommend you go here: http://www.jag.navy.mil/Careers/Careers3.htm and look around. Take a look at the FAQ page, I think it will answer all of the questions that you have.

 

[BrandonJ1780]

JAG tips

Great posts guys--I checked out a couple links Thisguy provided last night; like I told him, didn't have a printer so I was taking notes like a banshee. Got some pretty good info (dare I say gouge? I'm a civvie, prob haven't earned the right yet). Learned of the Student Program (SP) for the Navy--get picked up after first year of LS, sounds golden if you can get it. Esday, thanks for the Masters suggestions, and no, I haven't been dissuaded. I figure law school will get us where we want to be...no desire to be stuck in a big firm--more power to those who are, but if I can serve and eventually sock enough away to get a decent boat, I'm good...Best wishes to you both.

 

[jet_ifr]

I'm a 3L currently at U of South Dakota & was in a similar situation. If you're interested, go talk to the Army ROTC folks. They'll set you up with a scholarship, and if you're interested you could probably branch either Military Intel, JAG, or Aviation.

I was branched Aviation & am headed to Ft. Rucker for Helo training after the Bar Exam. My roommate went through the ROTC program with me and he's going to the JAG Corps (Army).

Private message me if you have any specific questions about the Army.

 

[wink]

Lots of good info to be found above. To be very clear, only good way into the Navy JAG Corps is through the student prorgram. Very very few guys go direct commission into JAG after graduation. While JAG is certainly not like the TV show, it also is not just writing wills and trying cases. Lots of JAGs are getting into ROE, helping Iraqi and Afgan officials start a country and other interesting stuff. I had a buddy that was a JAG and as a reservist he went to Eastonia to help write their constitution. He was the Jefferson of Estonia . I was at a Law School job fair just last month. I spoke with an Army JAG there recruiting as well and he said that the Army is deploying hundreds of JAGs to OIF and OEF. He was stoked about his job. Already been to OIF and was probably going back later in the year.

If you did want Intel after law school you would certainly be competitive. Age would be an issue, but as of today you would make the cut.

 

[esday1]

Another follow up in the "reasons to do JAG" category... Right now a federal judge who was both a fed and state prosecutor before that is talking to my crim law class. Someone (not me) asked about what sort of background and skills the US attorney's offices looked for when they hired new federal prosecutors. She mentioned JAG repeatedly during the answer as a way of knowing that someone had good courtroom skills.

 

[TXHusker05]

Another follow up in the "reasons to do JAG" category... Right now a federal judge who was both a fed and state prosecutor before that is talking to my crim law class. Someone (not me) asked about what sort of background and skills the US attorney's offices looked for when they hired new federal prosecutors. She mentioned JAG repeatedly during the answer as a way of knowing that someone had good courtroom skills.

The main reason for that being JAG lawyers have much more trial experience at an early stage in their career than a normal lawyer. They also have quite a bit of experience with federal and military law. Plus they are very well rounded applicants. I normal prosecutor may spent his entire career in one building in one city while a JAG lawyer will be in different cities, states, countries as well as at sea giving them experiences that will give them more ability at the federal level. Not to mention a sort of comfort of arguing at that level.