Looking for realistic opinions

[WhiskeyTango182]

I was non select for 3 designators in the September board. I was then told I cannot apply until 6 months after I heard back... Roughly, March. Which to my knowlege the next Aviation board isn't til April anyways... I'm running out of options. I've gone on countless interviews for civilian jobs but being fresh out of college they want more experience. I applied to grad school and start in the spring, and plan to reapply to OCS then. My question is, assuming I do all the appropriate things to improve my package and be more competitive, and I am non-select again, would there be an advantage later on with OCS if I just went ahead and enlisted? Or will I run into the paradox of "we've invested too much time and money into you already we don't want you to leave your current position and besides you're going to be too old by then." This economy is rough times and I'm just trying to make the best of any situations. I know there are plenty of prior service people getting picked up for OCS but I wonder if due to the economy it is advantageous to move up from within instead of taking a gamble for the next few years (assuming second time doesn't work out either). Not trying to be a pinhead here...

 

[Floppy_D]

would there be an advantage later on with OCS if I just went ahead and enlisted?

I seriously doubt it. If you want to be an officer, do that. Only enlist if that's what you want to do, because odds are that's what you'll be doing. I enlisted because I was sick of school and wanted to party, travel and get trained on stuff. I got all of the above in droves. I later decided that I wanted to make a career out of it and give aviation a whirl. My package was bolstered by years of solid evals and qualifications. If time is a factor, you won't have the time to make those things happen.

In your shoes, I'd stick to your guns and keep applying through grad school. If you don't want to be enlisted and are simply using it as a lever, then certainly don't do it. You'll spare you and potential co-workers some grief.

Good luck!

 

[m26]

Can you re-take the ASTB? I'd try to find a substantial improvement and resubmit ASAP, if they still allow that. That is assuming you don't mind being something other than a pilot.

 

[SynixMan]

First, no, don't enlist unless that's actually what your want. It's not the backdoor to being an officer. It's more like the underground tunnel filled with grease, hyd fluid, paint, port calls, and hot bunking that may or may not collapse on you. Most of my prior-e friends wouldn't give that experience up for the world, but don't recommend it.

22/F/SNA

University of Florida: B.A. History, 3.0 GPA
- Classics National Honor Society
- Marching Band
- College Republicans
LORs: 2 professors, 2 coaches
5/7/6/50
Extracurricular: Club Soccer, Swim Team, Marathon Runner, Triathlete

Two notes. First, ASTB is pretty low for pilot. Study that shit and take it again. It can make a world of difference, and it will show your recruiter that you're serious. Two, that's all around not a bad package. Are there any skeletons in your closet you're holding back? Three, what was the designators you put down? I'll assume, Pilot, NFO, and which other?

Above all else, keep the faith. A lot of us have worked shitty jobs and were on the outside looking in once.

 

[twobecrazy]

I agree with everything said above. I was prior enlisted and wouldn't change it for the world! However, I have seen other prior enlisted with packages similar to mine and yours not get selected. That being said you need something in your package as your WOW factor. Honestly it seems like I have seen this package about 100 times on this board with the stats, LORs, GPA, whatever... It is a very solid looking package but the problem I think lies in the fact that you can see 100 other packages on the forum similar to yours. Your WOW factor is going to have to come from somewhere that will put you over the top of everyone else that is applying. The first thing is to boost your ASTB as SynixMan suggested then you will have to dig deep to find that something that will put your package to the must have list!

Suggestions:
Volunteer work (not a WOW factor considering how little time you will have doing it but adds to the whole person concept)
Interview from a REALLY high ranking officer in the Navy or military in general but Navy would be better. (If you don't knock it out of the park I wouldn't put it in your package)
LORs from military officers along with your others will help

Obviously these things are what most people recommend when answering how can I improve my package type of questions. However, I think the most important thing in my application was my motivational statement. It was short and concise. I basically told them they would be nuts for not taking me and I want this more than anyone! This was then supported by my LORs. So I believe my WOW factor came from my motivational statement with my LORs as a one two punch. Overall I believe it had the effect of 7 guys going to the board instead of just me which was nice because the other 6 are all active or retired officers in the Navy. I don't know where you will be able to find this but I know you can convey many things in your motivational statement. Then make sure to back it up with the strongest parts of your package to convince the board why you are the one they seek. Good Luck retaking the ASTB!

 

[revan1013]

^^ I agree with SynixMan here.

Your package is fine. Retake the ASTB. It's not super low, there are pilots with that score but every little bit helps. Study a bit more and do it again.

Remember that timing is everything in the military and there's no way for us to tell if there was even a "specific" reason you didn't get picked unless you give us more personal information. I'm not saying you should tell us, just saying there may be more reasons than just your generic package. I had to work at Guitar Center for a year making near-minimum wage before going to OCS, be patient. It sucks I know.


Pick yourself up and try for the next board. Don't enlist out of a lack of patience.

 

[WhiskeyTango182]

I appreciate my dead end restaurant job esp. in times like these... But it's taking a toll for sure. Here is an update on what was in my package when it was said and done:

23/F/SNA
University of Florida: B.A. History, 3.0 GPA
- Classics National Honor Society
- Marching Band
- College Republicans
LORs: 2 professors, 2 coaches, 1 Retired AF Captain/Chief Pilot of NOAA
5/7/6/50
Extracurricular: Club Soccer, Swim Team, Marathon Runner, Triathlete
Volunteer at V.A. hospital
My PT score was... well I don't remember the score but 11:06 1.5 mi, 49 pushups and 108 sit ups which for female standards is decent but I know it supposedly doesn't make a world of difference. But c'mon I'm agile! haha

What I'm looking to add is:
Flight lessons/FAA ground school, a semester of graduate coursework, more volunteer hours, much better ASTB score and hopefully at least 1 officer interview.

After reading the resume I tried to put out into corporate America and making some serious revisions in the last month I'm sure my motivational statement could stand an upgrade, seeing as I have a lot more I can say having gone through the process and coming up short.

I have been reading this forum forever trying to gain as much knowledge and advice as to how to be more competitive but it's tough right now. But I appreciate all the personal perspective on the enlisting situation. I'm a listener so I like all the information and being able to put it to use.

Thanks for the words of wisdom yall.

 

[mbraesicke]

I was a non-select in March for SNA, I put my nose to the grindstone for 7 months and resubmitted an overhauled app/motivational statement and was pro rec'd SNA in the OCT boards. I had a 6/6/7 53 ASTB, but I made sure my app highlighted everything positive about me. In the 7 months it took to resubmit I actively looked for Officer interviews, went over my application several 100 times with a fine tooth comb and rewrote my motivational statement over and over until I was positive it was what I wanted the board to see. As far as what to put in the app, if it makes you look good its fair game. Some say putting leadership/team positions you had in high school isn't worth it, I say thats BS. Leadership and teamwork are learned skills, and establishing that you've been participating and excelling in them since high school makes you that much more competitive.

For the year and 2-3 months i've been in the process i've talked with 4 Naval Officers (3 I interviewed and kept in contact with and 1 0-6 I met on this website) about, amongst other things, how best to present my application to the board. I'd highly recommend this as senior officers will have a good idea of what the Navy is looking for, and can give you a no BS assessment of your potential as an officer. Don't expect them to come to you though, I had to organize my 3 interviews and build a rapport with the one on I found on this website. [I'm not advocating spamming anyone who has wings under their avatar, but if the opportunity to actually get some solid advice from one presents itself don't pass it up].

Getting a non-select is tough, but it gives you a while to back away from the process and really make sure you want to do this. Considering you're not about to hit the age restriction you have several years to apply twice a year for a spot. If you don't think you can score better on the ASTB don't do it, just keep adding to the app and resubmitting, someone will notice.

 

[Supersix4]

I appreciate my dead end restaurant job esp. in times like these... But it's taking a toll for sure. Here is an update on what was in my package when it was said and done:

23/F/SNA
University of Florida: B.A. History, 3.0 GPA
- Classics National Honor Society
- Marching Band
- College Republicans
LORs: 2 professors, 2 coaches, 1 Retired AF Captain/Chief Pilot of NOAA
5/7/6/50
Extracurricular: Club Soccer, Swim Team, Marathon Runner, Triathlete
Volunteer at V.A. hospital
My PT score was... well I don't remember the score but 11:06 1.5 mi, 49 pushups and 108 sit ups which for female standards is decent but I know it supposedly doesn't make a world of difference. But c'mon I'm agile! haha

What I'm looking to add is:
Flight lessons/FAA ground school, a semester of graduate coursework, more volunteer hours, much better ASTB score and hopefully at least 1 officer interview.

After reading the resume I tried to put out into corporate America and making some serious revisions in the last month I'm sure my motivational statement could stand an upgrade, seeing as I have a lot more I can say having gone through the process and coming up short.

I have been reading this forum forever trying to gain as much knowledge and advice as to how to be more competitive but it's tough right now. But I appreciate all the personal perspective on the enlisting situation. I'm a listener so I like all the information and being able to put it to use.

Thanks for the words of wisdom yall.

Whiskey Tango in downtown Hollywood? I'm from Hollywood. I am attending Broward college and hope to transfer to UF soon.

 

[SynixMan]

I'm not gonna beat a dead horse here, but unless your motovational statement sucked or you had a DUI you're not telling us about, the low ASTB is holding you back. Use the moto statement mega thread to get feedback on your statement.

Don't waste money you don't have on flight lessons. They're insanely expensive.

 

[WhiskeyTango182]

I have no arrests, no drugs, no nothing. I don't even have debt I went to college on scholarship... I'm just going to have to do a lot better on the ASTB-- seems like that is the deal breaker. My moto certainly doesn't suck but I guess everything can stand to be improved. Heavy sigh!!!

 

[nativeofsandieg]

I agree with said advice. Re-take the ASTB. Take the AFOQT, one piece of advice my father stressed (who was a Tomcat RIO), was to do anything you can do to get in the air. I would begin working on packages with multiple branches, unless the Navy is the only thing you want to do.

 

[TheBirdy]

First off, as stated above, don't enlist just because it may be a door towards getting picked up as an officer. If you want to be an officer, then apply as an officer. If you want to be enlisted, then enlist.

That being said, your package looks pretty solid, but there is always room for improvement.
1. Get that ASTB score up if you can. Study, study, study. ARCO Books, Barron's Book, Marine Gouge, Atrickplay's Gouge, Mechanical Gouge, FAA Pilots Handbook. It's all there. If you study all of those and understand it I am sure you can pull your scores up.
2. You have a list of clubs and organizations you are part of, but try to get a leadership position in one of those clubs (President, Vice President, etc). If you had leadership positions in high school clubs, I would put those down too. As said above, those positions and experience carry on with you through college.
3. Outstanding LORs with military officers. I feel like this would be a very good improvement to your package (I too am looking for interviews with officers).
4. I am not sure how much flight experience may help, but I have read on this forum that it is not a significant factor in a package. Then again, I don't see how having them could hurt..

Just my $0.02. Persistence and perseverance. Keep at it and don't give up. If you want it bad enough you'll do whatever it takes to make it happen. You still have a lot of time. From a fellow Gator in the application process, good luck.

 

[SC-NY-88]

Re-take the ASTB (just incase it wasn't said enough). I agree with just about everything everyone else posted. I was a non-select for NFO and SWO back in April or May, I 'fixed' my ASTB scores and was a select in September. From my experience I'd say ASTB can make or break. Re-take it! You've got 3 chances, why not use them, you want to submit the best possible package right? Oh, and as I understood it, if you make a substantial change to your package i.e. new scores you dont have to wait the 6 months. Good Luck.

 

[vmiclarkpe]

I graduated in May 2008 from VMI and intially was a non-select for the January 2009 boards. I had to wait 6 months to reapply, but that turned into more like 8 months because of set backs. My packet was fairly solid my first go around except I was lacking LoR's. I added 3 LoR's, two from Navy captains, and one from a retired 4-Star Army general. I ended up in the March 2010 board and was selected for NFO and SWO. (My top 3 were Pilot, NFO, SWO). I've had some issues since being Pro Rec'd but they have finally been taken care of and I'm just waiting for my Final Select letter now (according to my recruiter I'm already in the system with a Feb. 20th OCS date!).

My advice to you is stick it out, do some volunteering, it will definitely help. I actually started subsitute teaching in January 2009 and was able to add that to my packet and I think it helped. Also always have a backup plan! Graduate school is definitely a good idea the way the economy is right now.

I can relate to the dead-end restaraunt job! I was working at Joe's Crab Shack in Chesapeake until last January! It was absolutely terrible, but I finally was able to get a job in my field (chemistry) and have been much less stressed about all of my Navy set backs since.