ElPensador
Registered User
I just saw this on the news and looked it up on the net. Anyone else hear of this?
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/03/29/iraq.friendly.fire/
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/03/29/iraq.friendly.fire/
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Marines/A-10 Friendly Fire Incident
- Thread starter ElPensador
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flynglthrnk
USMC PLC
Make sure you read the article and not just the quote posted. After reading the second half titled "The ground just explodes" it seems as though they are trying to blame the Air Force and the article portrays it as being kind of suspicious. The mistake was probably caused by a combination of the Marine Captain and the Air Force pilot's error.
ElPensador
Registered User
Yeah it seems as if the Marine captain messed up in giving the order for the air strike, and the Air Force pilots weren't trained to recognize Marine vehicles, so they fired on them.
This makes me wonder: why would the Marines rely on Air Force for close air support, since they wouldn't be trained to recognize the vehicles? Isn't that one reason why there are Marine aviators to support the Marines on the ground? Or were there none in the area? Anyone? Anyone?
Of course, none of the articles on the net have all of the details, and there's no report posted yet at the Central Command website(http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/newsfeatures.asp), where it was reported to have been...
This makes me wonder: why would the Marines rely on Air Force for close air support, since they wouldn't be trained to recognize the vehicles? Isn't that one reason why there are Marine aviators to support the Marines on the ground? Or were there none in the area? Anyone? Anyone?
Of course, none of the articles on the net have all of the details, and there's no report posted yet at the Central Command website(http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/newsfeatures.asp), where it was reported to have been...
vegita1220
User
Pensador, I think it all has someting to do with the whole unified command thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this also happened back in Desert Storm One.
One of the things the AF(or at least Horner) took with him from Vietnam is the belief that dividing up an operating area into Navy air and AF zones is dumb.
So in DS One, Horner legally had control of Navy and Marine air...which means the Marines don't always have their "own" air arm any more whenever they're under joint control.
Same goes for the Navy.
I have to wonder though, from a pilot's perspective, is it really easy to tell a AAV from a pickup truck? I don't know what altitude the A-10 guys were at but I'd figure they'd be worried enough about eating a MANPAD in the ass.
One of the things the AF(or at least Horner) took with him from Vietnam is the belief that dividing up an operating area into Navy air and AF zones is dumb.
So in DS One, Horner legally had control of Navy and Marine air...which means the Marines don't always have their "own" air arm any more whenever they're under joint control.
Same goes for the Navy.
I have to wonder though, from a pilot's perspective, is it really easy to tell a AAV from a pickup truck? I don't know what altitude the A-10 guys were at but I'd figure they'd be worried enough about eating a MANPAD in the ass.
Air Force pilots weren't trained to recognize Marine vehicles, so they fired on them.
Not exactly.
I have to wonder though, from a pilot's perspective, is it really easy to tell a AAV from a pickup truck?
No.
From everything I have read, this unfortunate incident can be attributed to the fog of war. The Marine FAC was attached to another unit and did not know that Marines were across a key bridge. He apparently did not check through a more senior commander, though he had authorization from the CO on the scene.
Trying to tell the difference between a AAV and any other Armored vehicle from the air is very difficult. That task is made even worse when you are trying to avoid getting your ass shot off and the battle is occuring in the middle of a city, not open desert. Even though there were steps taken to prevent this kind of incident from occuring, it is almost inevitable this kind of thing will happen. As for the Marines having to rely on the USAF for support I have one word for you, joint. Anyways, the A-10 is probably the best CAS plane around and the pilots feel and act closer to the grunts on the ground than any other AF types. They take perverse pride in being the bastard stepchildren of AF Tacair.
Not exactly.
I have to wonder though, from a pilot's perspective, is it really easy to tell a AAV from a pickup truck?
No.
From everything I have read, this unfortunate incident can be attributed to the fog of war. The Marine FAC was attached to another unit and did not know that Marines were across a key bridge. He apparently did not check through a more senior commander, though he had authorization from the CO on the scene.
Trying to tell the difference between a AAV and any other Armored vehicle from the air is very difficult. That task is made even worse when you are trying to avoid getting your ass shot off and the battle is occuring in the middle of a city, not open desert. Even though there were steps taken to prevent this kind of incident from occuring, it is almost inevitable this kind of thing will happen. As for the Marines having to rely on the USAF for support I have one word for you, joint. Anyways, the A-10 is probably the best CAS plane around and the pilots feel and act closer to the grunts on the ground than any other AF types. They take perverse pride in being the bastard stepchildren of AF Tacair.
ElPensador
Registered User
I dunno if I just didn't see it before, but the report is available at http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/newsfeatures.asp. Just reading the first couple pages, it's revealed that the two Marine teams got separated and didn't know where the other was....more fog for the war.
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