Military: U.S. helicopter pilots to change tactics

[eddie]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16972735/

This from the AP. Not sure if we are allowed to discuss anything here, but
I figured it was worth posting.

I wonder if it really means anything tactically significant, or is just designed as basic answer to the public's concerns about the recent in-country crashes

 

[robav8r]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16972735/
I wonder if it really means anything tactically significant, or is just designed as basic answer to the public's concerns about the recent in-country crashes

I think the entire Iraq conflict is forcing the entire military involved there to re-think their TTP's. From a Naval Aviation perspective, IDRC SOP was to get your squadron NATOPS ready, obtain all the readiness required for the deployment you were going on, brush up on the TACMAN/TACAID/SPINS, etc, listen to the intel briefs by the AIO, take a recce exam and off you went over the horizon. The rate at which units are being to forced to adapt over there makes it even more important to be NATOPS & Tactically proficient in the A/C. I realize this is not as much of an issue for NAVAIR, but the fact remains that we have to have mechanisms in place that allow us to change tactics and adapt to a conflict faster than we have in the past.

 

[hscs]

We have always had to adjust tactics for the most recent conflict. Our doctrine has always been modified to fit the situation -- and it takes some thinking out of the proverbial box.

 

[robav8r]

We have always had to adjust tactics for the most recent conflict. Our doctrine has always been modified to fit the situation -- and it takes some thinking out of the proverbial box.

Yep - your community has, but many others haven't. I guess my point is more how we prepare for the change we'll encounter during the IDRC rather than the actual adaptation we're forced into once in theater.

 

[BigIron]

We have always had to adjust tactics for the most recent conflict. Our doctrine has always been modified to fit the situation -- and it takes some thinking out of the proverbial box.

I think that is what it comes down to. The article/media makes it seem we've pulled a new book off of the shelf and are magically using it.

 

[invertedflyer]

^ Agreed. perhaps the media sees this as some kind of "affirmation" that the war is going poorly. They'll use absolutely anything. Oh I loved it when they reported that the Iraq war had been going on for more days than WWII... can you imagine them planning their report on that? You'd think they could spend their time reporting something a little more useful.

 

[hscs]

Fog -- not really sure why other communities don't recognize that they need to be flexible. Don't get that. I hate to throw stones, but I have no idea why all the jet folk are not focussing 90% on OIF/OEF missions in workups. I really don't understand the workups -- it isn't like you all are trying to penetrate an IADS. The helos are the ones in the threat envelope.

 

[Brett327]

Fog -- not really sure why other communities don't recognize that they need to be flexible. Don't get that. I hate to throw stones, but I have no idea why all the jet folk are not focussing 90% on OIF/OEF missions in workups. I really don't understand the workups -- it isn't like you all are trying to penetrate an IADS. The helos are the ones in the threat envelope.

Problem being that we don't bring all that much to that particular fight. There's only so much TACAIR can do about small arms fire and the Prowlers are being gainfully employed on another target set. TACAIR focuses on strike warfare because that's what we do. The airwing needs to hone that skill set in case it's needed. I don't know what you would have us otherwise focus on. I understand your concern, but it's like asking a star NFL quarterback to fore-go training camp because he might be needed to sell peanuts in the stands.

Brett

 

[hscs]

Again, not trying to be a pain, but you can use our systems for things other than their original design. Now we, of course, can't go into particulars -- but we need to be creative and think of new ways to utilize our systems against these enemies.

 

[Brett327]

Again, not trying to be a pain, but you can use our systems for things other than their original design. Now we, of course, can't go into particulars -- but we need to be creative and think of new ways to utilize our systems against these enemies.

Agreed, and that's exactly what the Prowlers are doing, but there's only so much you can do with a section of Hornets. I say we blame them. Seriously though, I hear what you're saying and agree that more could probably be done, but it's also important to not lose sight of the big picture, I.E. who knows when/where the next challenge may come from and the likelihood that they will have a robust IADS. I pray it's not Iran, but that's not my decision, and if we were to go there, I want the airwing to be a full-up strike warfare round. IMO, this war has been militarily static since mid 2003 as far as TACAIR is concerned and I don't think there's a whole lot more that we can do from that perspective, but I'm certainly willing to listen to other views on the matter.

Brett

 

[hscs]

Concur -- not much we can really do until we get the current issues resolved in Iraq. And I am always up for blaming the Hornet guys.

 

[plc67]

I don't know anything about the Iraq tactics but we went up against the Strellas in 1972 and had to change our tactics ASAP. We had been taught 1500' was where small arms fire lost much of its effectiveness so we were to fly at or above that altitude as much as possible. In a missile environment that's not conducive to longevity so we started flying very, very low to avoid
the missiles being able to lock on.
Our sister squadron, HMM-165, had a CH-53 get hit by a strella and 2 or 3 US Marines and many, many RVN Marines were killed. Some of the crew survived and I talked to the HAC at the O'Club when both LPHs were in port and he told me he couldn't believe the angle that the missile locked on to him. As I said earlier that was 1972 and I'm sure there've been a few improvements to the SA7 since then.

 

[Single Seat]

Once again, thanks to the US media to forwarn our enemy what we're doing.

Here's a tactic, we load up all the Hollywood "elite" on a Helo, and drag ass over Baghdad for about 4 hours at 500' and 50 knots?

 

[BigIron]

Once again, thanks to the US media to forwarn our enemy what we're doing.

Here's a tactic, we load up all the Hollywood "elite" on a Helo, and drag ass over Baghdad for about 4 hours at 500' and 50 knots?

No, then we are sitting ducks for MANPAD threats.

How about we just stop listening to hollywood for anything. Those people act in movies and dramas....that's it. Certainly not experts in foreign policy.

 

[hscs]

Problem is what to worry more about -- small arms or MANPADS. Haji has both and knows how to use both.