Motown bail out ???

[A4sForever]

"Detroit" .. and all it's clones and satellite operations ... they are a cornerstone of the American economy and have been a vital part of our national defense infrastructure over the course of their history.

Should they be "bailed out" by the American taxpayer??

Or should they be left to their own devices and the market to make it or break it ???

If they get the bail out now ... how do we know they won't be back at the trough again??

 

[Mumbles]

I heard today that the major Nat'l newspapers lost a combined $8 billion just in the third quarter....so should the Gov't bail out print media next?? Harvard University endowments have taken a $12 billion dollar hit....does the American taxpayer bail out higher education as well??

 

[Slammer2]

I think they need to do a little soul searching before they get the money

 

[UMichfly]

Having seen firsthand the effects of their current situation, I think something definitely needs to be done. I think they did collectively poop the bed with their insistence on clinging to SUVs and the like and I think that they deserve some pain from that. What I don't want to see is another round of 20-30+ year employees getting told to pack sand and that their pensions are worthless. I am honestly more in favor of some sort of bailout for the car companies than a bailout of the fvckheads in the banking/insurance industry...but that one's already said and done.

My $.02

 

[Dirty]

Detroit needs the bailout, vice what we've been feed with the banking system essentially getting 1/2 point free money during the 'mortgage' crisis through sub-prime loans built on a house of cards. The greed truly lies with the hedge fund managers and leveraging themselves 75-100 times their asset liquidity. Long story short, sure detroit has had bad management practices, a loss in quality and generally sub standard automobiles compared to our Asian brethren. However, Japan does not have near the fixed cost that the US automakers do, conceding to the unions, retirement and health care. This all effects the bottom line, and when it came to price, Detroit had to maintain a competitive stance in the free market (Again, at the cost of quality). This money however is NOT for them to bail out bad management practices per se, but to provide liquidity for financing that new F-150, whilst maintaining a balanced credit/cash balance sheet sustaining operations in R&D, salary, production etc. In effect, it's more of a benefit to the consumer in this instance.

... But perhaps the Dem's would like to give the money to people that don't work vice helping the company in which people do...

 

[HokiePilot]

We already have a system in the US for dealing with troubled companies. It is called bankruptcy. Pelosi recently said "bankruptcy is not an option." Why isn't it an option? Numerous other companies have gone into bankruptcy and come out profitable. Is the auto industry than other US companies? Should it be?

 

[DanMa1156]

I don't want to see the Unions survive and I believe that forcing these companies into Ch. 11 and then letting them re-organize will at the very least loosen the grip that the Unions have on the industry. The Unions combined with sticking with SUV's have made a very poor business model.

 

[SkywardET]

We already have a system in the US for dealing with troubled companies. It is called bankruptcy. Pelosi recently said "bankruptcy is not an option." Why isn't it an option? Numerous other companies have gone into bankruptcy and come out profitable. Is the auto industry than other US companies? Should it be?

Their logic is "too big to fail," capitalism be damned.

It can be said that for half of the $700B TARP, we got exactly zero benefit out of it, and by that token, the delaying of job losses by one quarter for a measly $25-74B (depending on which intangible amount is being quoted at the time) seems pretty cheap and actually accomplishes something. If you extrapolate that out, and limit yourself only to the auto industry (but our government knows no limits), you could probably put off bankruptcy for another two years with the remaining TARP funds.

That being said, it is somewhat irrelevant. The economy will change during Obama's first administration, and either in spite of or because of his actions, it will emerge as something very noticibly different by the end of his second administration, should he be given one.

 

[HokiePilot]

The thing is, bankruptcy =/= fail. The auto makers can go into bankruptcy and then streamline themselves to be more in line with the "Asians." All this bailout is about is saving the Union jobs. I don't want them to fail but I really don't want to give them my money either.

 

[Junkball]

I think in principle the Big 3 should be left to bankrupcy, but I can't see that happen with a good conscience, being a Michigander and all. Our economy is already trashed and would be North Korea-level should GM go under.
Unions are important but renegotiating their relationship with the company is the first step in getting out of the red... that and putting out a superior product.

 

[m0tbaillie]

I think in principle the Big 3 should be left to bankrupcy, but I can't see that happen with a good conscience, being a Michigander and all. Our economy is already trashed and would be North Korea-level should GM go under.
Unions are important but renegotiating their relationship with the company is the first step in getting out of the red... that and putting out a superior product.

Well, if you're referring to the job loss and havoc wreaked on Michigan's economy then it already has. Michigan had the second slowest economic growth rate last year second to only West Virginia and next year we're projected to be in last place. It's high time Michigan found a new economic niche because the Big Three simply can't keep up with the more innovative foreign automakers. IF they demonstrate that they can, then maybe Congress should throw some money their way but they're just coming to Congress with their hands out because they thought they could cash in on the economic bailout-gravy train.

Screw 'em. They need to adapt, evolve, or go under like every other business.

 

[eddie]

Gov should take control of just the benefits, pensions, and health care, liquidiate them, and then tell the bastards to keep working. That should save all three. But that's niether feasable, nor... legal?

 

[The Chief]

Organized labor, has bought and paid for the Government, so why should they not get some help with some Government money? Oh wait, it is actually our, meaning taxpayer, money!

While most Americans, 67% last poll I saw, including me, do not approve of the bailout, would bet they will receive one or more, taxpayers be damn'd.

If you saw the hearings, you saw that the UAW had a seat at the table and an equal or perhaps more equal, which is okay as all should be heard. But when Gettlefinger of the UAW spoke, he had a long laundry list of items the UAW wanted, speaking as if the bailout approval were a foregone conclusion. Oh wait, maybe it is.

 

[SkywardET]

Organized labor, has bought and paid for the Government, so why should they not get some help with some Government money? Oh wait, it is actually our, meaning taxpayer, money!

While most Americans, 67% last poll I say, including me, do not approve of the bailout, would bet they will receive one or more, taxpayers be damn'd.

If you saw the hearings, you saw that the UAW had a seat at the table and an equal or perhaps more equal, which is okay as all should be heard. But when Gettlefinger of the UAW spoke, he had a long laundry list of items the UAW wanted, speaking as if the bailout approval were a foregone conclusion. Oh wait, maybe it is.

Shocking!
It's almost as if everything is working as intended.

There are too many reasons to be cynical. I really, really dislike it, but embrace it nonetheless.

 

[pourts]

... But perhaps the Dem's would like to give the money to people that don't work vice helping the company in which people do...

Ever heard of a job bank? The auto workers unions have them-- workers get paid to do nothing when they are laid off.