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Mucky Fother Luckers

IFlyorDie

Member
Having completed primary I have walked away with a few conclusions that I’m sure have been posted but here they are again for the newly initiated. Luck really is EVERYTHING when it comes to what you get in flight school.

Now before it sounds like I’m complaining about training you better give it your all. For yourself and the sailors who look up to you in the cockpit because that and no less is what they deserve.

But luck in primary… it’s a weird thing.

NSS is not indicative of your ability to fly. It is just a number of how you happen to stack up with a random set of 200 students who have gone before you.

That amazing NSS you got was as much luck as it was hard work. I had heard about it but only just noticed this as I was entering the final bend to primary. By the time you are on your last 7-ish flights you are pretty squared away. You can land, shoot and ILS, and (sometimes) fly a pretty consistent form. Between flights you may get a little rusty on stuff you haven’t done in months but the knowledge is there.

As a personal experience on my first form I made a foolish mistake of zooming through a checklist too quick and missed a step. My IP caught me and had me address the step. Though no harm to the aircraft or flight, the damage to my grade was done. I received a below MIF on ground ops. Additionally, that instructor had his own grading style where if one thing is below MIF he wouldn’t give above on anything else. The rest of the flight was error free only with some minor coaching on getting me closer to the other aircraft. The end grade 0.98. I thought “Ok, lesson learned. Basically MIFFED out, slow down, review the old stuff, move on.”

The last flight, exact same mistake different instructor. The flights were virtually indistinguishable from the way I first flew the airplane in froms. Grade 1.36. Wait… “I guess it’s more about who grades you than the rest.”


After reviewing flights in later stages of the training it followed the same pattern. I received a more noticeable difference in grades from instructors than I did in my growth as a T6 pilot. Obviously that the culture within the squadron varies and each CO may have an agenda with how students are graded but many SNAs I see almost get cheated out of the dream job due to the imperfect grading system over their ability to be an excellent pilot or be a knowledge powerhouse. On top of the luck and social factors there will ALWAYS be needs of the Navy.

So for all future SNAs. Work your ass off, pray to God, and never forget the lucky charm at home. Be grateful as luck runs out just like Jimmy Doolittle once said “I could never be so lucky again”
 
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OscarMyers

Well-Known Member
None
So….what did you get for advanced?
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Bad_Karma_1310

Well-Known Member
pilot
You make your own luck in flight school.

As you continue just anecdotally you will see that NSS is actually a pretty decent predictor of how good an aviator someone is. You will see exceptions where it just clicks for someone later but generally the same people who struggle through flight school and the FRS will struggle through SFWT in the fleet.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
You make your own luck in flight school.

As you continue just anecdotally you will see that NSS is actually a pretty decent predictor of how good an aviator someone is. You will see exceptions where it just clicks for someone later but generally the same people who struggle through flight school and the FRS will struggle through SFWT in the fleet.

I agree that on the whole, it really averages out to be pretty accurate. And what I believe that “it” is, is simply a measure of a student’s learning curve. How quickly do they pick up and master a particular skill, or set of skills? Those who consistently hit the bar early on, will have a high NSS. Those who take more time consistently, even if meeting by end of phase, will have a low NSS. Which all really means not that much, in terms of long term ability as an aviator. Some lightbulbs just take longer to go on that those of others.

I would give this piece of advice though. Bring a piece of paper to the debrief and make notes of things you can improve on. If it helps you, review them later on. If not, just throw them away. Don’t spend time looking at your gradesheets. I never once read a VT gradesheet, nor did i read any from the FRS, the fleet/SFWT, or while going through the TOPGUN course. Never read the grade sheets from my airline initial training either. I dont think much useful information is gleaned from such an activity. Maybe others have a different perspective of course. And the biggest piece of advice. I made a promise to myself during primary that I wouldn’t compare myself to anyone else in my class or in training with me. And I wouldn’t even think about what might come after primary. I mostly kept those promises, and I think it helped reduce stress and allowed me to perform better.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
Having completed primary I have walked away with a few conclusions that I’m sure have been posted but here there are again for the newly initiated. Luck really is EVERYTHING when it comes to what you get in flight school.

Now before sound like I’m complaining about training you better give it your all. For yourself and the sailors who look up to you in the cockpit because that and no less is what they deserve.

But luck in primary… it’s a weird thing.

NSS is not indicative of your ability to fly. It is just a number of how you happen to stack up with a random set of 200 students who have gone before you.

That amazing NSS you got was as much luck as it was hard work. I had hear about it but only just noticed this as I was entering the final bend to primary. By the time you are on your last 7-ish flights you are pretty squared away. You can land, shoot and ILS, and (sometimes) fly a pretty consistent form. Between flights you may get a little rusty on stuff you haven’t done in months but the knowledge is there.

As a personal experience on my first form I made a foolish mistake of zooming through a checklist too quick and missed a step. My IP caught me and had me address the step. Though no harm to the aircraft or flight, the damage to my grade was done. I received a below MIF on ground ops. Additionally, that instructor had his own grading style where if one thing is below MIF he wouldn’t give above on anything else. The rest of the flight was error free only with some minor coaching on getting me closer to the other aircraft. The end grade 0.98. I thought “Ok, lesson learned. Basically MIFFED out, slow down, review the old stuff, move on.”

The last flight, exact same mistake different instructor. The flights were virtually indistinguishable from the way I first flew the airplane in froms. Grade 1.36. Wait… “I guess it’s more about who grades you than the rest.”


After reviewing flights in later stages of the training it followed the same pattern. I received a more noticeable difference in grades from instructors than I did in my growth as a T6 pilot. Obviously that the culture within the squadron varies and each CO may have an agenda with how students are graded but many SNAs I see almost get cheated out of the dream job due to the imperfect grading system over their ability to be an excellent pilot or be a knowledge powerhouse. On top of the luck and social factors there will ALWAYS be needs of the Navy.

So for all future SNAs. Work your ass off, pray to God, and never forget the lucky charm at home. Be grateful as luck runs out just like Jimmy Doolittle once said “I could never be so lucky again”
Yeah… you know what they call the guy that graduated last in the class at Med School? Doctor.

Keep in mind there is somebody out there right now that has the intellect and skill to do what you are doing and through their own series of mistakes/luck/timing/opportunity are cutting yards or rotating tires trying to get their life on track.

The finish line you crossed is the first of many, take your medal and know there are people in the stands clapping for you no matter what color it is or who you had to compete with and how fair an evaluation of you that was.

Show up to wherever the Navy has decided to put you, and try to look excited when they hand you the oar to row with. This is a team sport and at the end of the day we have a lot of positions in the roster to fill.
 

IFlyorDie

Member
I agree that on the whole, it really averages out to be pretty accurate. And what I believe that “it” is, is simply a measure of a student’s learning curve. How quickly do they pick up and master a particular skill, or set of skills? Those who consistently hit the bar early on, will have a high NSS. Those who take more time consistently, even if meeting by end of phase, will have a low NSS. Which all really means not that much, in terms of long term ability as an aviator. Some lightbulbs just take longer to go on that those of others.

I would give this piece of advice though. Bring a piece of paper to the debrief and make notes of things you can improve on. If it helps you, review them later on. If not, just throw them away. Don’t spend time looking at your gradesheets. I never once read a VT gradesheet, nor did i read any from the FRS, the fleet/SFWT, or while going through the TOPGUN course. Never read the grade sheets from my airline initial training either. I dont think much useful information is gleaned from such an activity. Maybe others have a different perspective of course. And the biggest piece of advice. I made a promise to myself during primary that I wouldn’t compare myself to anyone else in my class or in training with me. And I wouldn’t even think about what might come after primary. I mostly kept those promises, and I think it helped reduce stress and allowed me to perform better.
The only reason I disagree is because I knew a SNA who lived in the sim. He had more sim hours and study time than reserve instructors had in their fleet aircraft. He literally taught me to do the entire contacts that I got 5s and the fact he wasn’t even close to 50 was indicative of the squadron’s MIF monsters getting scheduled with him a few too many times. He deserves strike from a work ethic perspective as well. I can say from studying with him, he knew the T6 more than I ever did yet it’s some bad luck with timing and IPs that landed him Helos.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
The only reason I disagree is because I knew a SNA who lived in the sim. He had more sim hours and study time than reserve instructors had in their fleet aircraft. He literally taught me to do the entire contacts that I got 5s and the fact he wasn’t even close to 50 was indicative of the squadron’s MIF monsters getting scheduled with him a few too many times. He deserves strike from a work ethic perspective as well. I can say from studying with him, he knew the T6 more than I ever did yet it’s some bad luck with timing and IPs that landed him Helos.
No community can afford to be made up of a population of last 1/3 dirtbags.

I don’t care how god damned good you were, what you showed is an aptitude to be the best, not an aptitude to fly a particular platform at the exclusion of the others.

How useful would it be to have a community of strike badasses when the guys guarding your carrier from subsurface attack or providing you EW and C2 were window lickers? Yes, that means despite the ego we need to have people in places like P8 or in the Army case Medevac/Hook that weren’t just barely good enough to make it.
 

DBM

Well-Known Member
How useful would it be to have a community of strike badasses when the guys guarding your carrier from subsurface attack or providing you EW and C2 were window lickers? Yes, that means despite the ego we need to have people in places like P8 or in the Army case Medevac/Hook that weren’t just barely good enough to make it.
You make a pretty good point. I never thought of it like that
 

SteveHolt!!!

Well-Known Member
pilot
The only reason I disagree is because I knew a SNA who lived in the sim. He had more sim hours and study time than reserve instructors had in their fleet aircraft. He literally taught me to do the entire contacts that I got 5s and the fact he wasn’t even close to 50 was indicative of the squadron’s MIF monsters getting scheduled with him a few too many times. He deserves strike from a work ethic perspective as well. I can say from studying with him, he knew the T6 more than I ever did yet it’s some bad luck with timing and IPs that landed him Helos.
I dunno, seems to me getting helos is heavily indicative of good luck. The gods just removed the bad choices for him

Id rather have a 30 nss who didn't treat my aircraft like a consolation prize then a 49.9 who thinks got cheated out of their dream job
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
You make a pretty good point. I never thought of it like that
Tough love is still love. The guy that graduated last in my class still got an aircraft assignment. I don’t know what that guy’s doing today, but I hope he didn’t show up to his unit on day one going “what I wanted to be was a ___” because nobody in the room cares.

Ego has got to be one of the biggest enemies of realizing that collective strength of action is the only way this works. I want everybody to show up ruthlessly motivated to be the best whatever they are. Imagine what that could accomplish.
 
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