My situation...

[marcopolo]

Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. I'll try to make it easy to read.

Right now I'm a freshman at Clemson University in South Carolina. I'm in the AFROTC program here with a Type-II scholarship. In the past couple of months, I've had a change of heart about which service I wanted to join and why. Not that serving in the Air Force as an officer isn't an honor, but I realize now that I want something a little bit different. I want to become a Marine Officer. I want to get my feet wet and have a bit of understanding of what the guys on the ground have to go through, and use that to be a better officer and leader. Everything that the Marine Corps stands for such as pride, honor, and physical fitness for example, is something that appeals to me very much. Not saying that the Air Force doesn't take pride or honor in what it does (and actually the PT here at Clemson isn't easy, I guess that's one of the reasons why the unit here received best unit in the nation award in the medium category this year, it is a top notch unit ), but the Marines seem "different" in a way. "Different" for example in the way of how it trains its officer (using OCS as a screening process to see if you are worthy, and TBS to actually learn what it is to be an officer). That's one of the things leaning me in this direction. I want to become a Marine Officer. No if's, and's, or but's about it.

I've informed the cadre here of my intentions of switching to PLC (PLC aviation, either NA or NFO, both sound great to me, though I do have some concerns about NFO which I'll ask about later), but I have not made any committments as of yet. I've also talked to the Marine OSO about my situation. He suggests that sometime no later than the middle of my second semster I tell the AF cadre of my final intentions, so they have enough time to do the paper work for my release. This (hopefully) means that the AF will continue to pay for this school year and I will have no commitment or obligation. In some ways this makes me feel guilty, as if I used AFROTC to just pay for my first school year, but I had no intention of dropping it and no desire to become a Marine Officer when I accepted the scholarship and started school here in Clemson. Actually, I'd be in great shape if I stayed in AFROTC and kept the scholarship. I scored a 92 Pilot and 93 Navigator on the AFOQT (to my surprise because I did not study for it at all), and everything as far as Air Force stuff is on track so far. But anyways, this release from AFROTC would allow me to start the PLC application process. The only thing I can do right now is take the ASTB (which I am studying for) which I will do sometime next month.

Okay, so here's some questions. Before I met the OSO I came into contact with an enlisted recruiter. He wants me to go into the reserves (boot camp this summer) and then apply for PLC (saying that it will increase my chances for acceptance, which it definately will). Me, him, and a Gunnery Seargant actually talked for about 3 hours about it. It does sound advantageous and great, and I was hooked on it that evening. But when I slept on it, I realized the drawbacks. Mainly the possibility of being deployed. Though I do want to serve in the Marines as an officer and gain the background to be a good one, my main personal obligation over anything right now first and foremost is completing my degree, which is obviously required for an officer anyways. I know somebody who is taking this path and is intending on doing PLC Law, and he says the CO in the reserve ammo unit in Greenville (a CWO who has been there for 22 years) will not send college students at all (choose them last). The CO is apparently a great guy. But unfortunately, the possibility of being deployed is still there. If I join the Marine reserves my first obligation would then be to the Corps, and not my degree. Sure, the boot camp and reserve experience would be beneficial, but is it truly needed to be a good officer? I don't know, but the recruiters are telling me that enlisted generally hold Mustang Officers in a different regard. I didn't think of this in his office, but all I would be is a reservist who may not even do a tour in the fleet as an enlisted man. Not that that's bad or dishonorable in anyway, but I wouldn't want to deploy quite honestly for reasons mentioned above, and also it wouldn't seem to be conducive to the reasons they want me to join the reserves then PLC versus just PLC. From researching and reading, it seems the training that Marine Officers go through alone will give an appreciation for the enlisted and people of the ground. So reaching this conclusion (and tell me if I'm wrong about it), I want to just do PLC. What is the best way to tell the recruiter this? I want to be direct, but humble about it. This may be a weird question to ask, but I do want to be as professional as I can about it.

Also one of two questions about service in aviation. Right now I'm open to the idea of either NA or NFO. I'm physically qualified for both right now according to the DODMERB I had to do for AFROTC. I know I'll have to do MEPS for PLC though. Honestly, I will probably shoot for a pilot slot rather than an NFO slot, but I would have absolutely no regrets being selected for either. I would definately take either in a heartbeat. Anyways, I've searched some threads in this forum and talked to the OSO and a Marine pilot about this, but is the future of the Marine NFO dim? With the retirement of the EA-6 and F/A-18D and their replacement by the single-seat F-35, how does the NFO's future look? Would they transfer to the Navy or AF, transfer to different jobs within the Corps, perhaps crosstrain to pilot, or things like that? I just want to ask again to get an idea of what may happen. I know that EA-6's and F/A-18's may stay for a decade more or so, but would walking the NFO path in my time frame still be viable?

Second question, suppose that after a tour in a squadron, I want to attend Naval Postgraduate School for my b-billet. How hard is it to get there? I guess a better way of asking is, in addition to just meeting the requirements to be accepted into this school, how hard would it be for an aviator to attend considering competition for slots there or operations tempo with the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and all? I realize by the time I may be in service things may be the same or completely different, but I'm just using right now as an example.

If I'm wrong about anything I've said in this thread, please tell me.

Thank you again for reading this. I'd appreciate feedback

 

[HighDimension]

Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. I'll try to make it easy to read. .... I'd appreciate feedback

I don't really have any answers but I'd like to welcome you to the forum. This is a very good first post unlike some others and I hope you get all the information you're looking for.

HD

 

[loadtoad]

I don't have all the answers for you but I am sure somebody else will come along and offer some more info.

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and will achieve your goal if you stick to your guns. I am a SSGT in the TXANG and have always had the goal of becoming an officer in the Air Force. A couple years into my enlistment I realized that the AF is not for me due to a couple of reasons. Many of them are not far off from your own and I am currently waiting to hear back from the November SNA board.

You obviously did really well on the AFOQT and you can expect decent scores on the ASTB especially if you study (I did better on the AFOQT). While being prior enlisted helps in some areas it is in no way a requirement to make you a better officer. Being enlisted in the Marines can help your chances getting a PLC slot but I think that if you do well in school, the PFT and the ASTB you will not have a problem. It has taken me five full years to complete college because of my obligation with the guard (I take mini-mesters, summer semester and many cleps). You can count on missed semesters for training and I would also bet on a deployment in there. Not saying that you won't get away without one but EVERY friend of mine in the Army Guard/Reserves, Marine Reserves and the ANG/USAFR have been deployed at least once. I am glad that I am prior enlisted and have had a blast being in the guard while in college but probably wouldn’t do it again. The reason for this is I could have already graduated and been in flight school by now…

Stay focused on school and the PLC slot, don't risk enlisting at the point. My two cents…

 

[raptor10]

Only go enlisted if that is what you want to do. But its a roundabout way to becoming an officer. Remember you are listening to enlisted recruiters and not officer recruiters, they are trying to get numbers for them.

PLC is a GREAT oppourtunity, it is geared towards making you an officer, as opposed to enlisting which is geared towards developing enlisted Marines.

If you want be an officer and fly, go PLC (or one of the other officer commisioning programs - NROTC if they have it at your school is still available)

Good Luck, and I hope others have the answers to your questions.

 

[Carno]

My advice to you is to politely tell the enlisted recruiter that you are not interested. Being enlisted is not a requirement to be a good officer. The enlisted recruiter has a quota and needs to fill it. He may mean well, but ultimately he is focused on accomplishing his mission, not making sure you make it to OCS.

Also, the general feeling that I get is that you're a douche if you enlist in the reserves for maybe a year or two, never deploy, get commissioned, and then boast about how you're prior enlisted and better than those officers who didn't enlist. Enlisting will give you a slight edge, but I'd say it could only help you if your package is marginal, or you're in a tie with another guy.

Oh yeah, if you enlist you will almost certainly deploy at some point.

 

[TheOldMan]

Concur with the other posters in recommending NOT enlisting in the Reserves. I'm a former OSO so I speak from experience when I say that the advantage you gain by enlisting is not significant if you otherwise have a strong package. If you have borderline qualifications (grades/test scores/waivers) service in the Reserves could help get you over the line, but that does not seem to be the case for you. You need to understand that an enlisted recruiter has only one mission, and that's to get you on the yellow footprints in PI. He get's no credit for mission by sending you to an OSO to go PLC. Many Reserve units are activated in whole, and if you're assigned to one of them you go, there is no picking and choosing and defering individuals in college.

NPGS is certainly a good second tour option, and many pilots follow that path. The downside is that your combined school and pay-back tour will have you out of a squadron for about five years vice the standard three, so when you do go back to the fleet you'll be behind many of your peers in qualifications and flight time. Certainly not a show stopper, but something to consider.

Good luck with your decision, I would much rather fly Marine metal tha Air Force metal. Feel free to PM me if you've got specific questions.

 

[scoober78]

Welcome, great first post....

Best first post quote ever....

but the Marines seem "different" in a way

Good luck.

 

[thull]

I don't know, but the recruiters are telling me that enlisted generally hold Mustang Officers in a different regard.

how so?

 

[marcopolo]

how so?

I guess what he's saying that enlisted would respect Mustang Officer's more because the Mustang Officer have been in their shoes. I get what he's saying, but I agree with what my OSO said when he called me two days ago that, it's your performance in your duty and your ability to take care of your men is what matters. I tend to agree with the OSO although I see where the enlisted recruiters coming from. Also, I wouldn't have been in the enlisted shoes in that manner because if I were in the reservers I would hopefully never deploy so it makes no difference really.

But taking into account my desires and goals, the discussion I had with the OSO and parents, and some of the comments in this topic which made me think of this in different aspects, I'm deciding to just do PLC. :thumbup_1

 

[scoober78]

. Also, I wouldn't have been in the enlisted shoes in that manner because if I were in the reservers I would hopefully never deploy so it makes no difference really.

Are you cracked???? Good luck finding a Marine reserve unit that hasn't deployed yet...

 

[invertedflyer]

A few things,

I've been in the Marine reserves now for over 3 years. It has been a valuable experience, but I would recommend sticking with straight PLC. Mustangs are definitely held in higher regard, knowing that your section leader has done the crappy chores of a LCpl. goes a long way... as you said, you've been in their boots. But, in the end, the measure of your conduct will decide how much your Marines respect you.

However, I had a few different reasons for joining the reserves. It was, like you, directly after my freshman year in college. I had been in AFROTC for my first year and came to the same conclusion as you, the Marines are "different"... and I wanted to do all of that moto ground stuff as well. I was sick of school, sick of AFROTC, sick of not being in the military. I also considered that being enlisted first might make me a better officer. Those were my reasons.

I have no regrets because being an enlisted Marine is a truly unique experience, however I would still recommend straight-PLC. Being "part of the pack" is great fun, but OCS gives you a window into the enlisted world and you'll have the appropriate amount of respect for it. TBS will show you the rest. I guess there is a definite upside to being prior enlisted at OCS though... you've basically had most of the classes in boot already, so you almost never have to study. And, much of the DI intimidation tactics are old news to you as boot was 5 times more horrifying in that respect.

Sounds like you have a pretty strong package...being enlisted would help but the Corps. needs pilots right now so your timing is good (however they aren't as in need as they were 2 years ago) ... I'd say stick with PLC, rock the ASTB, and I'll see you in the fleet =) ... oh and go SNA.

 

[Pitt2005]

Throughout the past 2 years flight contracts were being given out like water by the OSO's. I have heard they are giving out far less air contracts this year so keep that in mind. If you goal is to fly, make sure you sign up with an air contract. Do not let them talk you into a ground contract with the idea of changing over to an air contract later, probably wont happen. I was AFROTC, but was not on scholarship so it was easy for me to walk down the street and sign the paperwork at the OSO's office. I had a change of heart just as you are and could not be happier than I am now as a Marine in flight school. As for the reserves, the previous post was correct. Go reserves if thats what you want to do, but shouldnt effect your OCS selection that much. Will you be a better officer? From a reservists stand point I would say may or may not. Alot of reserve units are less than par so respect is not guranteed. The Navy is slowly transitioning to the Growler, but the USMC does not want it. We are acquiring the Prowlers from the Navy. I asked one of my commanding officer's 3 months ago about NFO's getting fazed out. He said it would be atleast 2012 before decisions about NFO's would come to the forefront. Thats many years away before decisions will be made. You would still have F-18 NFO's and Growler NFO's, even if the Prowler was gone by then, but thats doubtful. The JSF is so far out. If you want to live in a high rise on the beach with room service, go blue. If you want to hang out on the boat and get see sick, go Navy. If you want to be strong, Army strong, whatever that is, go sign up and theyll make you an O3 for signing up. If you want to be an officer and take care of young Marines, and know you make a difference everyday, go Marine. Best of luck,
Meathead
​

 

[spitfiremkxiv]

PLC won't pay for college, at least not quite like the deal you are getting now. Becoming a Marine could end up costing you a lot of money now, but if you're willing to make that sacrifice you're a good man for the Marine Corps. That says a lot about your priorities right there, if you're willing to give up the money for dream job.

Keep in mind that you'll have to drop AFROTC completely in order to just compete for PLC. If your grades are decent and you PT well you shouldn't have a problem getting PLC NA or NFO.

I switched from AFROTC to PLC-C (like a lot of people, I'm finding) after 4 years with AFROTC and the experience was, well, liberating. Marines are different... Making the switch now will be a LOT easier than it was for me and you won't owe money hopefully, but make sure you leave enough time to get all of the paperwork done. Just plan on going to Juniors after your sophomore year to avoid a time crunch.

Medical standards differ slightly so do your homework on that. If you have any questions about vision standards I can fill you in on how the two services compare.

 

[jamnww]

PLC won't pay for college, at least not quite like the deal you are getting now. Becoming a Marine could end up costing you a lot of money now, but if you're willing to make that sacrifice you're a good man for the Marine Corps. That says a lot about your priorities right there, if you're willing to give up the money for dream job.

Like has been said above, being in the Reserves does not really affect your PLC package unless its a weak one. If you want to go in the reserves do it...if you just want to pad your PLC application, pick up basket weaving or something

 

[invertedflyer]

PLC won't pay for college, at least not quite like the deal you are getting now. Becoming a Marine could end up costing you a lot of money now, but if you're willing to make that sacrifice you're a good man for the Marine Corps. That says a lot about your priorities right there, if you're willing to give up the money for dream job.

Keep in mind that you'll have to drop AFROTC completely in order to just compete for PLC. If your grades are decent and you PT well you shouldn't have a problem getting PLC NA or NFO.

If you go to PLC-Juniors, you are eligible for MCTAP and FAP (Tuition Assistance and Financial Assistance) ... this will reimburse your tuition and cost of books (MCTAP), as well as provide you with roughly $3,000 of stipend money (FAP) ... thats why I suggest that you go to Juniors as soon as possible so that you can become eligible. I know that FAP is for everyone, I'm pretty sure TA is available for candidates but don't quote me on that, ask your OSO. Regardless, the FAP money definitely helps with costs.

Medical standards are more lax in the Marine program, if it hasn't been an issue in the last 5 years don't even list it. As long as you can run a good PFT and you're arm isn't going to fall of or something, your'e good.