Navy Officer to Army Pilot

[pcolaflyer09]

I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for raising this question in a Navy/Marine Corps dominated forum, but so be it...

I'm currently a Reserve Officer in the Navy. I went to OCS and attended flight school as an SNFO. I was doing good in flight school and near the top of my class in Primary when I made the most regrettable decision of my life to DOR based on personal reasons. I was not having any trouble with the training itself, but, at the end of the day, I did voluntarily request to leave the training and because of that, will never be allowed to re-enter Navy flight school.

I re-designated as a Supply Corps Officer, finished active duty BQC, and entered the Reserves due to a force reduction.

I've done some research and am interested in trying to fly Helos for the Army. I know the age cutoff is 33 (I'm 30), but I'm wondering if I would run into any issues going from a Commissioned Officer to a Warrant Officer. Does anyone have any insight on this question or this situation in general?

Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[Brett327]

Two issues: Your DOR is going to be a factor (the Navy asks if you've DOR'd from any flight training program, the Army probably will too). Second, the Army is going to be downsizing in the next few years - significantly more than the USN.

 

[RobLyman]

Are you the same guy who posted on Military.com?

If not...I'll clarify a few things already mentioned. The Army won't automatically ask about a DOR, but you will end up going to a flight board. At the board it will be hard to disguise the prior Navy service on your resume without being dishonest, and the members of the board are sure to hone in on your DOR at that time. The DOR may or may not be a factor at that point.( Evidently they don't ask if you ever failed to make HAC prior to allowing you to transfer, so who knows.) Certainly don't expect that your prior NFO school experience will be a positive thing for you.

As for the downsizing, it is already happening. It isn't is as drastic as the Navy's, although the shear number of people it will affect is large. The Army will continue to recruit, but don't expect any waivers and the bar may be raised a bit for applicants to flight school. In the Army National Guard, the numbers will probably remain constant.

 

[KBayDog]

I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for raising this question in a Navy/Marine Corps dominated forum, but so be it...

Not at all. We poke fun at the other services, and they throw darts at us, but at the end of the day we share the same skies in support of the same overall mission. We've got more than a few USA and USAF pilots on the board (like Rob), and they all bring a lot to the table. In fact, some of our better discussions are about how we all attack our duties in slightly different ways, yet still accomplish the mission at the end of the day.

Oh, and 99.42% of us agree that we wish we had the USAF QOL.

I was doing good in flight school and near the top of my class in Primary when I made the most regrettable decision of my life to DOR based on personal reasons.

If you don't mind, could you share a little about why you did what you did, perhaps in a new thread? This might be a good thing for our younger members who are caught up in the day-to-day grind of flight school and who may have lost sight of the big picture. Every once in a while we get students on here who are contemplating DOR because they don't enjoy the schoolhouse, don't want to be away from their girlfriends, suddenly decide they want to be cowboy astronaut millionaires, etc. Maybe your thoughts about what you went through, why you DOR'd, and why you now feel it was the most regrettable decision of your life could cause some of them to take a long hard look at the implications of DOR. If you don't want to, that's fine, too.

In any event, all the best with your Army plans. Hope it works out in your favor.

 

[pcolaflyer09]

Thank you for the responses. KBayDog - I did start another thread on my DOR as you suggested. It's also in the Misc. section.

I am one of the two SNFO's that also posted on Military.com about this situation.

From what I can tell, it appears I would be able to put in a package for Army Helo's, but it will be difficult because:

1.) I will have to at some point explain why I DOR-ed from Navy training.
and
2.) The Army is downsizing.

I understand that it will be an uphill battle, but I would definitely still like to try even if my chances aren't great.

Would any of you happen to know of a good point of contact for starting a package? I've been told that the Army doesn't have officer recruiters, but instead all their recruiters are instructed on how to handle officer inquiries. That being said, I've contacted numerous local Army recruiters and they either say they don't know who I need to talk to or tell me I need to talk to a Navy recruiter. In other words, not much help...

Thanks once again.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Never say never, brozini. I was a SNA DOR (rule 1: when you have a personality conflict with your on-wing, he has the personality, you have the conflict). I put in to come back as an NFO after two years in SWOgatory...as far as I can tell, PERS-43 basically said, "Oh what the hell, give the kid another shot". Yeah, I had to explain myself, and the force wasn't growing (this was pre-9/11), but it worked out for me.

Lots of guys have made dumb decisions in their youth. As long as there's nothing in your history to indicate you learned nothing from the experience, I wouldn't think you'll be handicapped more than any other prior-service applicant.

As for the RLO to Warrant switch: I've heard of a couple of National Guard CWO pilots who were former Marine O-5s. Went Guard to finish out their last few years, but they still retire as Lt Cols (highest paygrade held).

 

[pcolaflyer09]

Uncle Fester....Interesting. I asked about re-entering NFO training as that would be my first preference and was told it wasn't possible (pertinent section from CNATRAINST 1500.4G CH-2 shown below). Maybe the rules have changed ???

904. REINSTATEMENT TO TRAINING. A NFS that is removed from
training for any reason not covered in this directive, and at no
fault irrespective of the student's culpability in his or her
removal from training, will require CNATRA (N7) approval prior to
NFS re-entry into training. The MATSG or TRAWING Commander shall
submit written justification for that student to be re-entered
into training. CNATRA (N7) will review the written justification
and shall conduct a quality review of all pipeline change requests.
After a thorough review of the NFSs package, CNATRA (N7) will
consult with CNATRA (N3) on seat availability and impacts on
specific pipeline loading of any re-entry request. If an NFS is
found to have re-entered training without CNATRA (N7) approval,
that NFS will be attrited by CNATRA (N7). NFSs who were removed from
training as a result of a Drop On Request (DOR) action are not eligible
for reinstatement.

905. SEPARATION FROM TRAINING. A NFS may be separated from
training for reasons detailed in Appendix D.
a. Drop On Request (DOR). A NFS desiring to drop from the
flight training program submits a written request on a
Supplementary Jacket Form, CNATRA-GEN 1542/16, detailing the
reasons for the DOR. This request should clearly indicate the
NFS's desire regarding the DOR. The request is submitted to the
TRAWING and becomes a permanent part of the ATJ. If an NFS is
being processed for PRB/TRB action, direct referral, IPC/FPC or
any other administrative action, the DOR shall take precedence.
NFS's who DOR will not later be eligible for reinstatement.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Couldn't tell you the rules now. At the time (early 2001), it was basically, ex-SNA's who DOR'ed couldn't go back in as an SNA, but they could apply to come back in as an SNFO.

Toss in a memo asking for a waiver from the pertinent instruction, stating your reasons. Unless there's something in an instruction that specifically says something is not waiverable, you can always ask. Worst they can say is no. I would not say your chances are good - when budgetary belts are tightening, people tend to be spring-loaded to 'no' when it comes to manpower - but your chances are definitely zero if you don't try.

Keep after the Army thing, and try the Guard and ANG as well. From what people have posted here, it seems like the Guards are more accustomed to picking up people through more off-the-wall paths.

 

[zippy]

Uncle Fester....Interesting. I asked about re-entering NFO training as that would be my first preference and was told it wasn't possible (pertinent section from CNATRAINST 1500.4G CH-2 shown below). Maybe the rules have changed ???

Wing Five recently (Within the last year or so) had a SNA DOR due to his inability to balance his personal and professional life... when he got to the Commodores Office, he said he wanted to try to go SNFO- much to the surprise of his previous command. The Commodore "un-did" his DOR and got him re-designated a SNFO... it seems that CNATRA instructions are guidelines to deviate from- better to be lucky then good.

 

[pcolaflyer09]

Thanks for all the posts everyone. I've been in touch with my local recruiter, who happens to be in Pensacola for training at the moment. It looks like my situation might be a little different than the examples provided because I re-designated, completed Suppo school and am now IRR; however, he is going to looking into the possibility of a waiver (no sense in not at least trying). I'm also still exploring getting into the Army's WOFT program. I'll keep this thread updated on what happens for future reference to anyone in a similar situation.