NFO switch to pilot (USMC)

[theduke]

i'm at TBS right now, and being told that it's a no-go. no way, no how, no chance, other than being one of the couple of guys who are allowed to switch after completing a tour.

i can't drop my NFO contract here at TBS, b/c if you do, you aren't allowed to compete for MOSs.

however, i've NEVER had any interest or intention of being an NFO. i know lots of people love it, and it's certainly an important job, but it just doesn't get me going. i wanted to be a pilot, but had to get PRK. my OSO told me to take the NFO contract, as it would get me on the aviation side and be a stepping stone towards pilot, and that in the worst case scenario, i had the NFO option reserved for myself, but could drop it at any time (they just implemented the new policy about dropping aviation contracts at TBS).

well, now i'm qualified both physically and with the ASTB for either pilot or NFO...but the Marine Corps apparently only needs one thing more than pilots...NFOs. as long as you're not an NFO, they're begging for you to be a pilot. if you're an SNFO, they won't let you.

i'm not really sold on this idea of NFO. i suffered through a mechanical engineering degree in college (partially so i could be a test pilot later on--didn't really want to be an engineer...i wanted to be a Marine officer), and i'm not really relishing the idea of the academia of flight school...minus the learning how to fly part. plus, while i'd kinda planned on staying on active duty for a long while as a pilot, i don't know that i'd want to incur that service commitment as an NFO. I think I might would rather either apply for the Funded Legal Education Program or get out and use the MGIB to help pay for law school.

finally, i'd wanted to be doing close air support with a Harrier or Cobra (F18 would be a good time, too). i didn't join the Marines to play with sophisticated equipment, or see the world, or whatever. I'm here because I want to kill bad guys.



sooo, all of this leads into a couple of questions:

1. does anyone have any advice for getting switched to pilot? would i have any better odds after i get down to pensacola?

2. if i DO decide against NFO, can someone give me a heads up on dropping out of flight school and pursuing a ground MOS (tanks and arty are the first two that come to mind)?


sorry if this sounds whiny...i know that there are a lot of people who'd love to be NFOs, and there are a lot of Lance Corporals doing far worse work for half the money. all of that aside, those are my thoughts. "It is what it is."

 

[HAL Pilot]

NFOs can go to test pilot school too. They still fly backseat, but it puts the engineering degree to work and opens up many opportunities outside the Navy (or possible with NASA as a Mission Specialist)

 

[Brett327]

I'm a Navy type, so I won't claim to know the Marine details, but as far as NFO goes, don't knock it until you try it. Being an NFO in a TACAIR platform is the same experience as being a pilot - you're just not driving. I know that sounds like a big deal to people who have been fantasizing and working themselves up over the years, but in the fleet, it's really just a minor detail. You'll be through with flight school in a year (with a little luck), then on to your RAG. If you're interested in TPS, there are plenty of NFO slots there too - same for the astronaut program. To think that you'd trade a life in Naval Aviation for cleaning the mud out of your tank tires seems like a bad trade to me. Trust me, you'll be killing just as many bad guys as a WSO or ECMO.

Hope that helps,

Brett

 

[phrogdriver]

If you really have a hankering to shoot things, do your tour as an NFO, then take a job as a FAC. You can even go ANGLICO or security forces if you need more "ooh-rah" in your diet. There is an NFO to pilot board for experienced NFOs--yes only 1 or 2 a year, but it's there. Drop your contract now and you could end up as an adjutant or ground supply or something equally lame, er...excuse me, uh...not combat arms. There are 20-some officer primary MOSs, and only a few get to put ordnance on the enemy. Count yourself lucky.

 

[wink]

And let this be a lesson to anyone that thinks they can take NFO and hold out for pilot later. If you WANT NFO and an oportunity comes up to switch to pilot, fine. But stay out of my designator/MOS unless you really and truely want it. Things change, you got screwed when the drop in TBS policy changed. Never bet on the come unless you are going to be happy with the down side risk. And what Brett said about TACAIR NFO is right on. Good luck.

 

[theduke]

as far as NFO goes, don't knock it until you try it.

that's one reason i'm not dropping my air contract at TBS and hoping for infantry (and not adjutant, supply, etc). that's what a lot of guys up here are doing. i'm no huge fan of humping everywhere, and i'm not totally sure i'd rather go ground than NFO. i change my mind about that about every other day. i'm going to go to flight school, try to switch to pilot (speaking of which, does anyone have any advice about that?), and if that doesn't work, get a little more of a feel for NFO. if i'm still not convinced, then i'll prob drop and go ground.

Trust me, you'll be killing just as many bad guys as a WSO or ECMO.

could you elaborate?

If you really have a hankering to shoot things, do your tour as an NFO, then take a job as a FAC. You can even go ANGLICO or security forces if you need more "ooh-rah" in your diet. There is an NFO to pilot board for experienced NFOs--yes only 1 or 2 a year, but it's there.

1. already thought about FAC. definitely have some interest in that. hadn't really thought about ANGLICO or security forces...i'll have to check into that a little more.

2. that NFO to pilot board...i know it's usually only a couple per year. any idea how many usually apply? do you just check the ALLMARS online to keep up to speed on when to apply?

Never bet on the come unless you are going to be happy with the down side risk.

if i'd known then what i know now...

when i took the contract, i was new to the game and just took an OSO's word as the gospel truth. i mean, he was a very sharp guy, and i viewed him as an authority on all things Marine--particularly aviation matters, since he was an NFO by trade. i don't mean to insinuate that he lied to me and screwed me to get an NFO contract (although he obviously needed that box checked)...but it was definitely some seriously bad gouge. I believed that I was doing the logical thing in terms of getting a pilot slot, and was assured that I had "everything to gain and nothing to lose" by taking the NFO contract.

 

[TrunkMonkey]

I think I might would rather either apply for the Funded Legal Education Program or get out and use the MGIB to help pay for law school.

Duke, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I have the same dreams about post-Navy law school, so I just wanted to know if anyone can tell me for sure if officers get the MGIB? I thought I remembered someone telling me it was only for enlisted, but I could be wrong. If I'm wrong...good, more money.

 

[zab1001]

The only officers getting MGIB are OCS or NROTC guys who didn't have scholarships (yes, they/we exist).

I have no idea about BDCP. I'm 99% sure PLC guys get it.

Academy/NROTC with scholarship do not get MGIB.

 

[theduke]

any more responses or advice?

 

[theduke]

http://www.usmc.mil/directiv.nsf/82001916d226893285256d12004936dd/a1d248038de3ebf5852564970041b9eb/$FILE/MCO%201542.1H.pdf

the above order pretty explicitly states that SNFO designated officers are not eligable for transition to SNFO.

https://cnatra.navaltx.navy.mil/cnatra/folder2/1500.4Fwch1&2&3&4.pdf

look at pages 81-83 of this, though: it pretty much tells you how to switch from SNFO to SNA.

i believe that both of these orders have been recently revised, so as far as i know, it's not just a case of one of them being outdated.

does the first one only apply to FMF officers requesting a transfer into the aviation training pipeline?

can anyone with more insight and/or experience in this stuff reconcile these two documents?

 

[ip568]

NFO is better...

I'm a retired P-3 NFO who also has an ATP and CFI-ASMEI, 7,600 flight hours total. From that vantage point I can say that having been a fleet NFO was the best deal in the world. The P-3 NFO runs the whole show and has the most fun. There is nothing like commanding a crew when you're 200 feet off the deck in a 60 degree angle bank, running a MAD trap on a sub that's trying to get away. Also have had several hunderd hours right seat in a P-3 on transits. That was ok but just a change of pace from taccoing. Piloting is, frankly, basically driving the bus so the NFO can complete the mission.

OK, flame away, but first make sure you've seen it from both sides.

ip568

 

[TransvestFO]

sooo, all of this leads into a couple of questions:

1. does anyone have any advice for getting switched to pilot? would i have any better odds after i get down to pensacola?
I wouldn't count on getting switched to SNA from SNFO once in P'cola. That really never happens. Picking up a transition once you do a tour is a possibility but also rare. I have seen a small number of Marines transition from ground to air, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that one these days. It really depends on what you want to do. Are you going to be all right with 2 anchors. If so, go for the NFO gig. You will have a great time. Marine and Navy EA-6B's are doing some incredible missions and are highly sought after assets.

2. if i DO decide against NFO, can someone give me a heads up on dropping out of flight school and pursuing a ground MOS (tanks and arty are the first two that come to mind)?
When I was instructing down in P'cola, we were granting "early retirement" to those who failed to complete flight school. You just never can tell. It is not a game I would recommend playing. If surface fires is your thing, I would put aviation out of my mind, go for it with the Arty or tank outfits and don't look back. That is some incredible stuff also!

What it amounts to is you have several amazing choices. I recommend you go in the direction you have a (for lack of a better word) passion for. Don't start down a road with another road in mind, the military rarely cooperates with your plan so you might as well be doing something you can get you teeth into. Make sense? Good luck with your decision.

 

[theduke]

well, i REALLY want to stay Marine, but i don't plan on doing it if i'm not a pilot. There are lots of great things and lots of drawbacks to being in the military, and i don't think i want to suck up the drawbacks if i'm not in the MOS i want. If i can't get switched, i plan on serving out my obligation, then either heading to another service that will let me fly, or heading to the Civ Div (although there isn't really anything else i want to do. i have a degree in mechanical engineering, but i don't really want to do that) and maybe going Air National Guard.

With all of that in mind, i'm giving a lot of thought towards going tanks/tracks/arty, but i want to at least go to flight school and try one last time to switch to pilot, and give the NFO gig a closer look before i bail out of the air wing. I don't know what kind of chances I have of getting one of those jobs and not getting stuck as an adjutant or comptroller, or as an infantry officer (i'm all about ground combat arms, but i can't describe how much i hate humps and all kinds of other stuff that 0302s do all the time)

 

[goplay234]

OK, I will give you some advice...NFO is a great job. I am in the RAG for E-2's. When I was in Pcola, I was drafted to come here. I thought that it would be the end of the world. I mean, no one WANTS E-2's. You know what, it's pretty cool. It's not dropping iron on bad guys but it's interesting in it's own way. If you desperately want to be a pilot, fine. But NFO is awesome and as a USMC NFO you get a choice of Prowlers or Hornets....Hmmm....let me think...Which would be worse? No matter which path you go, ground or air, Pilot or FO, your career is going to be full of opportunities. If you told me I would be here a year or so ago when I started API, I would have told you your nuts but now I am learning to conduct air strikes...So good luck and remember that no matter what you pick, you'll like it.

 

[brd2881]

Hey duke, there was a guy I went to API with that started API as an SNFO and finished as an SNA. This guy really wanted to be an SNA, but failed to obtain the slot for whatever reason. He finished first in the class out of everyone and the API skipper redesignated him on the spot when we finished. I don't know if this is a common thing for every class, but I saw it with my own eyes and its possible. I don't know if the Marines do the same thing as this kid was Navy. I mean, to finish first in the class, you have smoke the PRT, and you are a Marine, shouldn't be a problem, and then you can miss maybe 1 or 2 questions TOTAL out of the six tests. Hit the books really hard and it may happen.