NIP-HS-HSL-ASAP-random acronym thread

[scoolbubba]

Ugh, kill yourself.

"We were flying another fam flight in the pattern and it was our 20th abort of the flight. Numerous other aircraft in the pattern have already had to go around and rejoin the pattern because of our "training." After take off and a lap around the pattern, it was time for me to turn base leg 1/2 a mile from the airport. Sure that C-17 can fly a tighter pattern than we can, but why not give them the time to enjoy the view? It was at this time that we decided to key the mic and talk about our plans to tower for five minutes..."

Counter that with the HS and HSL guys doing the river run...
"There we were...bombing along at 500' above the St Johns, not talking to anyone, living the dream and sucking up the freedom of being VFR...when out of nowhere, this big P-3 getting some home field bounces in, visible from MILES AWAY, has the gall to start his final turn off the 180 right in front of us! The nerve of that guy, announcing his intentions to touch and go and calling the gear while we were right there hanging out in our badass haze grey helo in the haze grey haze!":icon_tong

 

[Gatordev]

Counter that with the HS and HSL guys doing the river run...
"There we were...bombing along at 500' above the St Johns, not talking to anyone, living the dream and sucking up the freedom of being VFR...when out of nowhere, this big P-3 getting some home field bounces in, visible from MILES AWAY, has the gall to start his final turn off the 180 right in front of us! The nerve of that guy, announcing his intentions to touch and go and calling the gear while we were right there hanging out in our badass haze grey helo in the haze grey haze!":icon_tong

I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I'm never at 500' unless tower tells me. Secondly, if people complain, they're retarded. There was actually an email that went out a week or two about this on the HSL side. I'm not really sure what the issue was...don't fly next to the P-3 who you know is going to turn base/90. Doesn't seem that hard, but in standard HSL fashion, emails were sent out to everyone to notify them of this hazard.

Oh, and we are talking...we're up Tower, we're just up UHF, like every other normal military aircraft. P-3s and their VHFs...It was always fun to have some sort of issue w/ a P-3 at K-Bay because they weren't up the right freq and then tell tower to tell them to come up UHF, per the Base ops manual. Often times they'd complain a bit until it was explained that it was an actual rule.

 

[scoolbubba]

I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I'm never at 500' unless tower tells me. Secondly, if people complain, they're retarded. There was actually an email that went out a week or two about this on the HSL side. I'm not really sure what the issue was...don't fly next to the P-3 who you know is going to turn base/90. Doesn't seem that hard, but in standard HSL fashion, emails were sent out to everyone to notify them of this hazard.

Oh, and we are talking...we're up Tower, we're just up UHF, like every other normal military aircraft. P-3s and their VHFs...It was always fun to have some sort of issue w/ a P-3 at K-Bay because they weren't up the right freq and then tell tower to tell them to come up UHF, per the Base ops manual. Often times they'd complain a bit until it was explained that it was an actual rule.

It was said mostly in jest. Tower is usually pretty good about giving us a heads up that some one else is out there, and having 2 extra sets of eyes in the cockpit makes life easier.

 

[webmaster]

I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I'm never at 500' unless tower tells me. Secondly, if people complain, they're retarded. There was actually an email that went out a week or two about this on the HSL side. I'm not really sure what the issue was...don't fly next to the P-3 who you know is going to turn base/90. Doesn't seem that hard, but in standard HSL fashion, emails were sent out to everyone to notify them of this hazard.

Oh, and we are talking...we're up Tower, we're just up UHF, like every other normal military aircraft. P-3s and their VHFs...It was always fun to have some sort of issue w/ a P-3 at K-Bay because they weren't up the right freq and then tell tower to tell them to come up UHF, per the Base ops manual. Often times they'd complain a bit until it was explained that it was an actual rule.

Gatordev, it was a real issue over the last month with helos flying down the center of St. Johns at 500' which is where I am supposed to be turning final at 400-500' (god knows where depending on the students in question). I guess you have new? squadrons or helos at Mayport, and there were some over here at Jax. They weren't transiting the east bank, instead 500' right through final. That email you got was because of our safety officer, and output from our IP meeting and ASAP reports with the majority of our pilots noticing the sudden change. And no, a bunch WEREN'T up with tower. I figure it is the new guys?! God knows we will have more issues with a new P3 squadron getting here in June with local course rules AGAIN... sigh...

2 months ago tower at KNIP had lots of background noise on UHF, so many of the P3s were using VHF. Recently with the new (temp) tower, I haven't had any problems hearing tower on either frequency. This issue was across all our aircraft, griped in ASAP.... For the most part, while we like VHFs for ATC comms, my UHF radios (historically) tend to be more reliable. Flying now for a good bit of time in both Jax and Kbay, P3s are predominantly on UHF. C17s were the wierd off freq bunch with VHF much of the time, plus their really REALLY wide cross wind. And let's not get into the whole fiasco with their near wing strike on their T&G to runway 04 that got the whole hold short changed... sigh...

 

[Gatordev]

Gatordev, it was a real issue over the last month with helos flying down the center of St. Johns at 500' which is where I am supposed to be turning final at 400-500' (god knows where depending on the students in question). I guess you have new? squadrons or helos at Mayport, and there were some over here at Jax. They weren't transiting the east bank, instead 500' right through final. That email you got was because of our safety officer, and output from our IP meeting and ASAP reports with the majority of our pilots noticing the sudden change. And no, a bunch WEREN'T up with tower. I figure it is the new guys?! God knows we will have more issues with a new P3 squadron getting here in June with local course rules AGAIN... sigh...

No new squadrons at Mayport. One (and about to be two) squadrons have moved to NIP from NRB. I can't understand how someone would NOT be up tower when cruising through the river, so not sure if that was a "fact" that got misconstrued or someone just is completely oblivious to the world. There are "other" -60 assets in town lately, but I doubt they would blow off tower, as well. There was an issue w/ them at NRB the other night, but it was due to tower (big surprise at NRB) and not the transient helo. Regardless, I'm with you...if they're not up tower, HUGE deal.

As for flying 500' down the middle, yeah...dumb. If one of you guys is in the pattern, tower would usually tell us 500' and below (which I execute with "enthusiasm..." all w/in SOP, of course) and will usually send us to the east bank. I dog on HSL, but even these incidents aren't normal, from what I've seen.

Then again, before I left for Haiti, several times at night/dusk, I'd be just south of Julington Creek and look out and see 3 other -60s (both HS and HSL) and a -65 and NO ONE was up CSAR common, which everyone seems to have agreed upon is a smart thing to do. Like you said, cyclic training, I guess.

2 months ago tower at KNIP had lots of background noise on UHF, so many of the P3s were using VHF. Recently with the new (temp) tower, I haven't had any problems hearing tower on either frequency. This issue was across all our aircraft, griped in ASAP.... For the most part, while we like VHFs for ATC comms, my UHF radios (historically) tend to be more reliable. Flying now for a good bit of time in both Jax and Kbay, P3s are predominantly on UHF. C17s were the wierd off freq bunch with VHF much of the time, plus their really REALLY wide cross wind. And let's not get into the whole fiasco with their near wing strike on their T&G to runway 04 that got the whole hold short changed... sigh...

My UHF/VHF comments were mostly in jest. It was a serious issue for a while at K-bay when P-3s would come in on the PAR for 22, get handed off to tower on Tower's freq (and not on the discrete freq) for downwind on 4, but tune up VHF and not have a clue that there was a -60 or -53 turning cross-wind/on downwind/whatever right in front of them because they didn't hear them.

When I would regularly fly out of NIP, I actually never had a problem w/ the P-3s on the radios (on UHF), but it's all the other "problems" I've had with them that I just have to take a pot shot at you guys when I can.

 

[helolumpy]

Counter that with the HS and HSL guys doing the river run...
"There we were...bombing along at 500' above the St Johns, not talking to anyone, living the dream and sucking up the freedom of being VFR...when out of nowhere, this big P-3 getting some home field bounces in, visible from MILES AWAY, has the gall to start his final turn off the 180 right in front of us! The nerve of that guy, announcing his intentions to touch and go and calling the gear while we were right there hanging out in our badass haze grey helo in the haze grey haze!":icon_tong

The worst was when the seawall pads were closed and we had to use spot 4 (at the base of the tower) at NAS Jax. We'd roll onto the spot and have to wait for a P-3 which had already called on final to do his touch and go before we'd be cleared to depart. It looked like the P-3 was rolling final over the ICW and was on about a 10 miles final. (I realize it's not, it just what it looked like from the cockpit).

Then we head over to Cecil and we're having a great time bouncing until a P-3 shows up.

All I'm saying is that fixed wing and helos have a difficult time sharing the same airspace for pattern work.

 

[scoolbubba]

Then we head over to Cecil and we're having a great time bouncing until we talked to the guy in the tower

FIFY. Least favorite controller EVER...maybe you're out there reading this, Mr. Cecil Tower...

 

[RobLyman]

FIFY. Least favorite controller EVER...maybe you're out there reading this, Mr. Cecil Tower...

What about the dragon lady at Cecil? You guys may not "experience" her as much as we do, but of you roll off pad 3 so much as an inch without contacting her on ground, she gets angry over the radio.

 

[BACONATOR]

I did the "river run" ONCE in the mighty roto-weenie on a CCX, so of course that means I don't know shit. IIRC, we hugged the opposite beachline and with the constant traffic calls from Tower, we kept FAR away from the P-3's bouncing and kept them all in sight with plenty of space at all times. Wasn't a problem for us that day. Is it normal VFR course rules to fly close to the pattern for the helos?

Are the big grey whirly birds really getting that close?

 

[Gatordev]

Are the big grey whirly birds really getting that close?

Did you read the thread?

 

[webmaster]

Did you read the thread?

I don't think he did.

 

[phrogpilot73]

What about the dragon lady at Cecil? You guys may not "experience" her as much as we do, but of you roll off pad 3 so much as an inch without contacting her on ground, she gets angry over the radio.

I think I experienced her. We were doing a lift for UF NROTC students and it was inside Cecil's airspace. We gave them a little fam ride, which included going out to the edge of Cecil's airspace. Contacted tower, told them where we were going to be working and said "for the next 1+00". Never left their airspace, and she yelled at me that I needed to call her every time I exited and entered her airspace. I thought about telling her that I never left, but it just wasn't worth the hassle.

 

[RobLyman]

I am not sure what is going on sometimes in the tower there at NIP. We did a run (north to south) about 2 months ago. Just north of the centerline at 300' we asked if we could fly over the west edge of the river at the Buckman bridge (for fam purposes). We got permission. About a mile south of the centerline we started a climb to 500' so as not to shake the windows of the houses at the west side of the river on our way to Cecil. Without any call from tower, we see a P-3 on left downwind to 28, less than 1000' right over the Buckman. As we got closer we realize he is down closer to 500-600', because we had to descend and stay close to 200' to maintain separation. Still no call from the tower to either of us. We slowed way down, let the P-3 pass ahead of us, then climbed to 500'. Not until the P-3 was at the 180 did the tower make any call. And then it was just a "check wheels down, cleared touch & go" to the P-3.

I have flown helos and fixed wing in Jax since 1986. The one and only time I ask for a transition to the SW at the end of a river run, tower actually clears me to do it, and I nearly get run over by a P-3. I am not sure what he was doing so low, but I am guessing there was some simulated EP going on. I doubt they ever saw us. As for the tower...WTF?

Gotta like this photo taken by my pax from the JNFC Piper Arrow at Julington creek a few years ago:

 

[dustydog]

I have flown Helos and C-40s at KNIP and I think the problem is the military's love of UHF. Let's all talk on VHF like the rest of the world and the deconfliction would be better. I hate to bag on the VP-30 guys but they are horrible about calling traffic. I realize that they are the RAG and the IP's have their hands full, but they are the majority of the problem.

 

[MasterBates]

There are more than a few AC out there that are still UHF only, or have limtied VHF range.