Officer Candidates @ NROTC

[etnuclearsailor]

I was going to ask those of you who are in NROTC now, or those who were there since STA21 or ECP existed:
Are Officer Candidates treated differently than Midshipmen? I know we're supposed to be fully integrated into the battalion, but does it ever work that way? Are OC's treated any better or worse than Mids?

 

[KBayDog]

Depends on the school.

For example, at The Citadel, OCs and MECEP Marines are not integrated into the midshipmen battalion at all...In fact, there are four distinct elements: Navy OCs, Navy Midshipmen, MECEP Marines, and Marine Option Mids. The four elements are not inter-mixed. The active duty Marines and Sailors are treated as Marines and Sailors, have their own chain of command, and have nothing to do with the midshipmen. Of course, we were in a unique situation due to our size. Most schools have full integration.

 

[WannaBEaP3gal]

Where I went, we had about 50/50 OCs and Mids, all pretty much treated the same. However you guys are usually held at a higher standard and more is expected out of you since you guys have the fleet experience and all which makes sense... I wouldn't put you on the same level as the straight out of high school Mid. But then again every unit is different.

 

[zippy]

My unit was mostly regular MIDN, with some OCs thrown in. They were fully intigrated into the BN structure, but they didn't really associate with the MIDs (I mean some of them did, but some of them didn't- they went to a different school then most of us, and typically had a family) My unit tended to give the MIDs more of the big leadership billets because they needed the exposure. Needless to say, some of the OCs didn't like being told what to do by their mid "seniors" and the mids didn't really like being told what to do by the OCs, but overall their wasn't a huge divide. Our Units biggest division came from the members of the BN going to different schools and therefore having different people to hangout with, and different things they could or could not get away with depending on what school they went to.

 

[Crowbar]

I think it depends on the school how things work. For us, OCs and Mids were almost considered equal. It depended on performance who got more respect and got treated better. Obviously more was expected of the OCs but there were some good Mids out there too.

Some OCs look at college as a break from the fleet-they ***** about having to do anything other than going to class. Others go there and try to help people out and make their peers and future officers better at what they do. It's all up to you which one you will be and how much respect you will get while you are there.

 

[nateb]

More is definitely expected of the OC's (and MECEP's) here. All of our OC's are fairly seasoned though, with the most junior having about six years TIS. As far as integration into the unit the OC's (and MECEP's) are fully integrated. Our current chain would like to keep the priors out of the big battalion jobs, but we have been utilized when the situation has warranted it. Our current priors are all top-notch, and are all granted a level of respect that they have earned here at the unit.

 

[webmaster]

Agree on the whole with comments listed above, especially Crowbar's reference to two Fleet varieties that show up, the performer, and the all I am here to do is go to college mentality. During my stay at UFNROTC, I went through both a couple times, depends on your credit load. Remember, you are there to get a degree, and your performance (GPA) directly affects your OC Fitrep. In turn, Fitrep and GPA affect service selection on where you go after you get commissioned.

On the other hand, a BN NROTC Staff is shorthanded enough as it is, and the Skipper, XO and MOI lean on the "salty" OCs and MECEPs to pass on more to the middies in the battallion. Bottom line, more is exected out of the OC by BN staff, by default, you getting there has proved you can perform. And I disagree, you ARE treated different than the average MIDN (until you f/u and prove that they should treat you otherwise).

I never had a problem with a squad leader or company commander ordering me about, they have to learn. And you are there to help them. But then again, if they were WAAAYYYY out to lunch, I didn't hesitate to correct/help them.

Crowbar also hit it 100% with the leadership, and assisting the mids. For some, cough (marines), it was like open season when they got there to go after the midn, and of all things, wardroom watchstanding. I called a marine on it once, "Dude, how many watches have you ever stood? Didn't think so." Basically, don't fall into the mindset of beating up on the mids, they need help and guidance, and you are a perfect source, in between the BN and the Staff, and in a way out of the rank structure for them to go to to get advice and help.

Maybe Gatordev can chime in, since he was on the otherside of the "fence" as a middy at UF, and upperclassman to me. Was I a "pain in the a$$" OC to deal with?

 

[Ex Rigger]

At Texas A&M, like the Citadel, we are not integrated at all. We are seperate and are expected to have good grades. Some OC's take on leadership positions within the battalion but the job is not as demanding as some units. The midshipman battalion is huge but all the mids are usually already locked on and there is not as much work organization wise that is not already done through the corps of cadets. As far as we go, they leave us alone and sometimes ask us to give briefs at leadlab on our fleet experience. Get good grades and graduate is all they want.

 

[Chris Hill]

Be a mentor

At Minnesota, the environment is similar to what everyone else said here. Basically, the OC's are supposed to be fully integrated and share the billets equally (but billets are given based on both need to develop and ability, so the selection isn't fully consistent since OC's are older with more experience). Anyway, some active duty students have a hard time working for an 18 year old just out of high school.

My advice is check out the schools you're applying to first. When you get there try to follow the "rules," even if it seems ridiculous, since you will essentially be a mentor to the Midshipmen who have little to no Fleet experience. Midshipmen will look up to you, even if you work for them.

 

[etnuclearsailor]

Thanks to everyone for your input on this curiousity search.
I'm headed to SUNY Maritime next month, and I'm pretty sure their NROTC unit is fully integrated Mids and OCs (at least thats' what I remember them telling me when I was there). I was wondering how the Mids tend to treat the OCs if they are in leadership over them. Do they tend to use a gentler touch on us older guys, or do they tend to power trip when in authority over the AD personnel?

 

[webmaster]

No offense meant by this statement, but... if you can't handle a middy with a power trip, you have issues. And yes, more than likely you will encounter them, consider it leadership refresher training for you!

But as mentioned above, majority are very motivated to be there, and a good mentor never hurt.

 

[Ex Rigger]

I was wondering how the Mids tend to treat the OCs if they are in leadership over them. Do they tend to use a gentler touch on us older guys, or do they tend to power trip when in authority over the AD personnel?

More than likely, your going to have to see when you get to SUNY, because like I said, here at A&M they wouldn't put a mid in a position over an OC. On the other hand, I have a friend at Oklahoma and they are treated from the day they show up as no different than a freshman right out of high school. Both types of treatment have their advantages. I would assume that its going to be integrated. The easiest options for OC's, as far as BS goes with the units, is to go to the schools with Corps of Cadets contingents like the Citadel and Texas A&M. Keep in mind, this is only my opinion, as I am sure some other units are also easy on their OC's.

 

[etnuclearsailor]

The Regiment of Cadets is not available to us OCs over there. The Mids can do both, but since OCs are only there for three years at best, we cannot complete the Regiment training. As far as the school is concerned, OCs are traditional students. We still wear uniforms to class daily due to NROTC wearing theirs (Maritime uniforms look a lot like Navy uniforms).
We are rolled in as Sophmores when we show up to batallion. I don't know how many OCs they have there. They get three of us this summer.

 

[Ex Rigger]

I'm not talking about being a part of the Corps of Cadets...OC's have nothing to do with them. Were just one of the regular 45,000 students that attend the University. Here we are not labeled Freshman, Sophomore or anything like that...just an OC. I was simply saying that those schools with a Corps of Cadets units do not mess with the OC's very much at all. This has its ups and downs. Anyhow, Wherever you go keep your grades up and you'll be fine.

 

[webmaster]

On a completely different note, I am happy to see so many enlisted commissioning program (STA/OCS) bubbas on the site, and the degree to which you are posting good gouge back and forth. Know that if you have any questions about the road ahead, that there are plenty other mustangs on the site besides myself that would be glad to help out, either posting here, PM or email.

Congrats again, and welcome to the wardroom!