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Old French carrier to be scrapped

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/02/08/britain.toxic.ship/index.html

Check out the disgusting picture. How do they let a ship get that bad? It looks like it was sitting in downtown Naples with the trash.

Fittingly, that reminds of when we were involved with a joint op with the French Navy; my roommate, who was suffering from "the runs" at the time, flew to the Clemenceau for a pax pickup. As soon as the gear was chocked, he jumped out, and frantically ran to the island, trying to get directions to the head. Barely made it in time. So that may have been when the taxic problem started.
 

FlyinSpy

Mongo only pawn, in game of life...
Contributor
There's a line in the CNN story that caused me a chuckle:

"The environmental campaign group said at the time it contained "high levels of asbestos and other hazardous materials." Two activists climbed the ship's masts and hung banners reading "Absestos carrier: stay out of India."

Asbestos is a lot of things, but particularly lethal is not one of them. My summer job in college was sampling asbestos in large industrial facilities and in abatement projects, and learned a lot about the issue. (It also beat flipping burgers.) The big takeway is that asbestos is a health concern, but pretty much only if you are occupationally exposed to it for career-length durations - shipyard workers, asbestos miners, and the like. Short of that, you tended to be pretty much ok - the whole asbestos issue really centers around how absymally we as people tend to deal with risk. Here are some numbers to internalize, and then I'll get off my soapbox:

Rate of lung cancer among the general population: ~1.8 per 100K people

Rate of lung cancer among those exposed occupationally to asbestos over a 20 year career: ~5 per 100K

OK, so asbestos clearly is not harmless. Some more numbers:

Rate of lung cancer among smokers (2 pack/day) with no other known risk factors: ~10 per 100k.

Now we're getting somewhere - smoking is about twice as hazardous as being occupationally exposed to asbestos. And by "occupational exposure", I mean without any sort of protection at all. If you were a pipefitter in a shipyard "back in the day", the airborne asbestos in compartments and holds would essentially be so thick you couldn't see the other side. That's a lot of asbestos...

Rate of lung cancer among those who were occupationally exposed to asbestos AND were smokers? ~500 per 100k. :eek:

Bingo - asbestos is what is known as a co-carcinogen (i.e., it works in conjunction with something else) - by a factor of about 50 to 100. Of course, it dind't help that if you tended to be a shipyard worker or miner back in the first half of this century you also tended to smoke. But the big takeway is that non-occupational exposure to asbestos, like "there's some wrapped around a pipe in my basement" is an additional risk that's so low it's tough to actually measure it. If anyone is still reading at this point, they can learn more here: http://www.mhlw.go.jp/shingi/2005/12/dl/s1221-8e.pdf

Since we suck at relative and absolute risk assessment, we ended up getting rid of asbestos - which is damn shame, since it is such a useful material. Asbestos concrete is insanely strong, and asbestos brake shoes were cheap and effective. It's a great fireproofing material and fantastic insulator.

The net result is that you can have a lot of valid reasons for not wanting an old French carrier in your backyard - but fear of asbestos probably isn't a good one....
 

PropAddict

Now with even more awesome!
pilot
Contributor

Yes, but a few hours later she looked like this:
Oriskany037.jpg


(FTR: It's a nice dive, will be better in 5-10 years. Could have been executed better, tho, more like Spiegel Grove.)
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
And speaking of asbestos and whatnot, getting the O sunk was an epic. Towed back and forth between P'cola and Corpus several times because of hurricanes, delayed for years. Finally ready to do the SINKEX, and someone realizes that the wooden flight deck had been soaking up hyd fluid and whatnot for all those years. Environmental hazard. Gotta rip it up. More time, more money. But the ol girl's a reef now, and the local dive shops and the Chamber of Commerce are happy.
 
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