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P-3 FRS for NFOs

Sabre170

Sabre170

Active Member
None
What is the P-3 Rag like for NFOs? Do NFOs and NA train together or do we have separate classes/flights? Is the wait in Jax still about 5-6 months for NFOs? How much of what we learn at Randolph carries over (INS, NCS, RADAR). Do NFOs still navigate Point to Point or do the pilots do that now... Do students get to use PFPS and FALCON VIEW in the plane or is that an instructor tool only still? Just basis questions... and if you can fill in some of the gaps with more info that would be appreciated.

Also if the wait is long enough... how does the Navy feel about someone getting a 2nd job during the wait/holidays to make extra money. Do you need the COs approval for that?
 
M

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
From my experince with the HSL rag in mayport, working as an "O" is a NO-NO.

I had a 3 month wait to start the RAG, and I was having to pay for two apartments on Ensign pay. (Was Geo-Baching while wife finished college, but they closed the BOQ here). I did some under the table work, but it would have been a total s**tstorm if I was caught.

In a fleet squadron? Fugheddaboutit. I have 20 months after last cruise to PRD, and was going to do some part time engineering work (Weekends only, not at all interfering with my ground job or flying) and my skipper blew a gasket just from me asking.
 
webmaster

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I can't answer your specifics, and masterbates covered the job aspect. But, the only phase that pilots interact in are the cross country (navigation extend, do they still do that?) and the tactics phase for VP.
 
P3 F0

P3 F0

Well-Known Member
None
Sabre170 said:
What is the P-3 Rag like for NFOs? Do NFOs and NA train together or do we have separate classes/flights? Is the wait in Jax still about 5-6 months for NFOs? How much of what we learn at Randolph carries over (INS, NCS, RADAR). Do NFOs still navigate Point to Point or do the pilots do that now... Do students get to use PFPS and FALCON VIEW in the plane or is that an instructor tool only still? Just basis questions... and if you can fill in some of the gaps with more info that would be appreciated.
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From my limited time in the RAG (I was a re-tread going into another Fleet squadron, and this was several years ago), we were allowed to use PFPS only to flight plan. I don't think you'd be allowed to use that for an actual flight, be it local or cross-country. I think Falconview is something you start using once you get to your squadron. And yes, you are pretty separate from the pilots until you get to your squadron.

As far as how the RAG is, well, for re-treads, it's pretty easy. And from talking with the initial NFO's in my class, they didn't seem to be having any major difficulties with the syllabus. My impression has always been that for props, once you leave the VT world, you really have to be a bottom feeder to attrite. The RAG may have some aspects that suck (you'd have to talk to a FO or pilot that's just been through it, I think, to find out what they are), but hanging out in Jax for several months, working through the syllabus there is a pretty good deal in the big picture.
 
chrispaul

chrispaul

NFO
None
Been a while since I was in the RAG but mostly, NFOs and Pilots classes are separate. Flights will typically have both on board. I would say little NAV stuff from Randolph carries over - in the RAG you're learning radios, tactical navigation, roles and procedures you're expected to do during ASW missions, etc. Only if everything starts dying on the plane and you need to pull out that sextant to get you back home will you need to remember Randolph.
 
chrispaul

chrispaul

NFO
None
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, what with GPS and everything nowadays. I doubt the P-8 MMA will have a sextant port anyway....
 
M

Mongo22

Registered User
No more cel nav? Probably a good thing for the guys currently at Randolph. Cel was my least favorite phase...lots of math, lots of opportunities to get overloaded.
 
M

Mongo22

Registered User
Sabre170 said:
What is the P-3 Rag like for NFOs? Do NFOs and NA train together or do we have separate classes/flights? Is the wait in Jax still about 5-6 months for NFOs? How much of what we learn at Randolph carries over (INS, NCS, RADAR). Do NFOs still navigate Point to Point or do the pilots do that now... Do students get to use PFPS and FALCON VIEW in the plane or is that an instructor tool only still? Just basis questions... and if you can fill in some of the gaps with more info that would be appreciated.

Also if the wait is long enough... how does the Navy feel about someone getting a 2nd job during the wait/holidays to make extra money. Do you need the COs approval for that?
Click to expand...

VP-30 was nothing like Randolph when I went through. Way more laid back and the emphsis is less on navigation skill and more on systems managment. You spend alot of time learning about the various equipment and software that impacts your life as a nav. When I was at Randolph we spent zero time on systems.

The fundamentals you learned at Randolph will still apply. At Randolph you learn the basics of navigation, namely how to stay on centerline. At 30, and then in the fleet, you expand on that knowlege and become a tactical navigator -- things like MOSA (i.e., not flying into a mountain), tactical comms, assisting the TACCO with the mission etc. -- are added to your ability to stay on centerline. The same principles they drill into your head still apply - mission preperation, situational awareness, staying ahead of the plane - only now you get to perform in a much more dynamic enviroment. Its a ton more fun than anything you have experienced thus far.

As far as point to points go - I think you are talking about them in the navaid sense. If that is the case, you don't do them. In the P-3 when you are flying under ATC the pilots handle the navigation...NFO's listen on the radio and act as a backup. No more directing the piolts on the approach, which I always thought was one of the silliest things we did at Randolph. Your job is tactical nav...overwater (or maybe land) where there are no navaids, although there may be ships. Like point to points, you still fly to points in space, but you have so many systems to help you out (GPS, INS) etc. it really won't be an issue. At 30 you will become a systems wiz and lean how to use your gear to stear the flight station anywhere you need to go.

Interaction with pilots was minimal in the RAG. They have their syllabus and you have yours. When you go fly or go in the sim, there will be no P's up front getting checks in the box just like you are.

Just curious...for the students there now, how is Randolph nowadays? I was winged in '93 and had a blast there. Had to put up with some petty AF BS, but it was mimimal...most of our instructors were Navy and the handful of AF instructors were relaxed. The Auger Inn rocked on Fridays and San Antonio was an enormous step up from Pensacola :)
 
Sabre170

Sabre170

Active Member
None
Mongo22 said:
Just curious...for the students there now, how is Randolph nowadays? I was winged in '93 and had a blast there. Had to put up with some petty AF BS, but it was mimimal...most of our instructors were Navy and the handful of AF instructors were relaxed. The Auger Inn rocked on Fridays and San Antonio was an enormous step up from Pensacola :)
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Well San Antonio now sucks... if you ask most Navy guys. On Academic days your class has to be present from 0730-1630... no more getting off early and going back to the dorms to study/mission prep. The paperwork that our instructors have to do is stupid. I think, (in my limited exposure to the military), AETC and Randolph has a way of making a simple task harder and more time/resource consuming than it need to be. I don't think the IM training is that bad... I could do without the four IM flights we have - that are suppose to simulate the simulator (figure that one out). A lot of time is spent on RADAR and INS...
 
Sabre170

Sabre170

Active Member
None
Does anyone have anything (EPs, MQF, Systems info...etc.) that they could email me about the P-3. I would like to put some of that in my bathroom to occasionally read between now and the start of the FRS.
 
Stubby

Stubby

Ask the Chief
I'm an Aircrew Training Chief at the P-3 FRS. To answer some of the original questions, NFO's and Pilots (and Aircrew) begin with separate classes to learn thier individual systems. During the final (or tactical) phase, individual training crews are formed combining all tracks (minus IFT and FE) to fly and do simulators together.

The wait time can be a couple of months plus or minus. While on hold, Junior Officers generally muster with Student Control in the morning (Yes, you have to come to work), and then are free for the rest of the day. On the rare occasion Officers on hold are given small short term jobs like proctoring the Enlisted Rating Exam or working at the Education Services Office.

As far as a second job goes; It's generally frowned upon, but you can discuss it with the Student Control Officer (O-4) on a case by case basis.

As far as the specific curriculum goes..... I'll save that for an NFO to answer.

Id be happy to answer any other questions, or the VP-30 website is https://www.cnet.navy.mil/vp30home/index.htm
You can find contact information there if you would like to call and ask some more specific questions.
 
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