P-3 JO Retention

[Unsats for All]

Hi, first time I've posted so here goes. I'm looking for any information, rumors, anecdotes, etc regarding P-3 junior officer retention. How many folks are staying on after their winging commitment? How many are jumping ship, either by getting out or looking into another Navy career path?

 

[zab1001]

all the guys you hated stayed in. one guy you liked is still around, and doesn't know why. the rest of us bailed out.

 

[A4sForever]

all the guys you hated stayed in. one guy you liked is still around, and doesn't know why. the rest of us bailed out.

I don't know too much @ P-3's ... but we wrote the same epitaph for the Attack and Fighter go-fast communities in the '70's ....

I guess things really don't change, in spite of the advance notices to the contrary ....

 

[PropStop]

I'm very likely getting out BECAUSE of the people who stayed in.

Though part of me wants to stick around to be one of the few who doesn't suck (at least I believe I'd be one of the good ones), I just don't have any desire to put up with the BS any more.

Even though I'm likely to get paid less on the outside, at least I can pick a job where I don't have to work nearly every weekend, holiday, and late into the evening (on my "shore" tour no less).

Not to say that the Navy has been all bad, mind you. And certainly there is some significant incentive to staying in - but I have seen a lot of the jobs that O4s and O5s get post DH or CO tour...and those jobs suck.

Most of the good guys from my squadron (who are now on shore duty) are on the fence or are sure they're getting out. Most of the ass kissers are staying in. Some of the tool bags are also getting out, but they wouldn't make DH anyhow.

 

[Sabre170]

Disclosure: I have not been in the P-3 Community for long and this is just what I hear and have been told.

The P-3 Community does things differently than other aviation communities. From who loads Crypto, coming out of the FRS as a Nav only to start over because the squadrons do not trust you, we fly to practise for our sims instead of simming to practise for flights, do to CMO we have no DivO billets now, and we do things today because we are P-3 and we have always done it that way...

Like I said I have heard others talk and have been told a few of these things. I can see where some of it is true and maybe after I finish my first sea tour I will know better what is true or not. Any of you Salty ones have some input?

 

[DanMa1156]

^^ Not meaning to threadjack, but what's CMO stand for and why does it mean there are no more DivO jobs in the P-3 Community?

 

[Dirty]

what's CMO stand for and why does it mean there are no more DivO jobs in the P-3 Community?

Contract Maintenance, i.e., no screamin' seamen working on the plane anymore. P-3's will be going through some dying pains in the next few (10) years. After that, you'll be seeing guys putting TACAIR as their 2nd choice. The '37 is going to be sweet. Until then, everyone gets to take it on the chin. As far as mentality, it has the 'POTENTIAL' to be the best gig in the Navy. And, It's up to the NEW JO's to make it fun and belittle your Department Heads at every opportunity through video, All Officer emails when they're away from their desks and mass consumption of alcohol. You need to know your shit, but do not allow the 'mentality' to consume you. Show up, take care of business, take long lunches, take care of remaining business and leave. That is your key to success....

 

[heynowlookout]

Contract Maintenance, i.e., no screamin' seamen working on the plane anymore...

Not really, it's Combined Maintenance Organization meaning each wing has its own maintenance command rather than maintainers being assigned to each squadron. Still plenty of seaman working on the planes they just don't report to the squardon CO when they give you a shit airplane and there are no Branch/Div O jobs for squadron JO's in maintenance. Except in Brunswick, we're not going to CMO but will integrate our maintainers into CMO Jax as we move there:icon_rage

The rest about P-8 and belittling department heads sounds about right.

 

[Dirty]

Not really, it's Combined Maintenance Organization meaning each wing has its own maintenance command rather than maintainers being assigned to each squadron. Still plenty of seaman working on the planes they just don't report to the squardon CO when they give you a shit airplane and there are no Branch/Div O jobs for squadron JO's in maintenance. Except in Brunswick, we're not going to CMO but will integrate our maintainers into CMO Jax as we move there:icon_rage

The rest about P-8 and belittling department heads sounds about right.

CMO was on the way in as I was on the out... That was my understanding, I stand corrected..

 

[Rg9]

So with this whole CMO thing, what kind of ground job should a new JO seek to get? Since, from what I've heard, it screws us out of most non-flying leadership opportunities, will there be any jobs where we'll actually have an LPO and a division reporting to us?

 

[Hozer]

Rest assured, a variety of "interesting" ground jobs are being created to fill the fitrep void. As stated before, it's going to be a tough tour.Just an outside observation; the squadron CO's seem more like DH's now since the Wing owns the assets and parlays them out as they see fit.
It's lousy at Jax, only a few planes, half bounce birds, half "mission" birds. Problem is, with CMO you've detached even further any local control over grooming of a mission bird. So, you've got a USW mission and CMO says your bird is up, but it's not really. The acoustic suite works, but your radar is marginal and your comm gear is down, but according to CMO maint cntrl, the bird is PMC and good for USW.
You folks have a tough road to hoe, but it'll get better in a few years, after you're gone.
But what do I know, I'm a kool-aid drinkin' hinge in P-cola.:sleep_125

 

[xj220]

As far as mentality, it has the 'POTENTIAL' to be the best gig in the Navy. And, It's up to the NEW JO's to make it fun and belittle your Department Heads at every opportunity through video, All Officer emails when they're away from their desks and mass consumption of alcohol. You need to know your shit, but do not allow the 'mentality' to consume you. Show up, take care of business, take long lunches, take care of remaining business and leave. That is your key to success....

This is what I'm most curious about. The belittling of superiors and avoiding the "mentality" seem like really hazy areas. This is the community I'll be going into and I want to make the most of it but I don't know what my boundaries are. I'm just starting advanced so obviously I've got some time before I reach an actual squadron, but I don't want to be behind the "game."

 

[zab1001]

Keep your mouth shut for the first 6 months unless you have a legit question. Watch the more experienced JOs. You'll figure it out.

DO NOT show up for the first time at a squadron party, get wasted, and tell your XO how much NFOs suck and why they're worthless. Especially if he has civvies on and is in fact an NFO. (watched that one go down, HILARIOUS)

 

[PropStop]

^^^^What Zab said, and

When an emergency takes place, and you're the 3P, don't argue with the PPC when he tells you to get out of the seat so the 2P can get in.

Oh, and especially don't tell the PPC that since you were most recently at VP-30 that you have the most up to date fleet tactical knowledge...

Of course, keeping quiet does not absolve you of the responsibility of pointing out dangerous situations/things. Experienced crew members sometimes miss things. If you're not 100% sure about something, ASK!!! That's OK. Just be humble about it.

 

[Sabre170]

So with this whole CMO thing, what kind of ground job should a new JO seek to get? Since, from what I've heard, it screws us out of most non-flying leadership opportunities, will there be any jobs where we'll actually have an LPO and a division reporting to us?

For the new guys some of the most visible jobs are Legal, and ASO. You go to a school (3-4wks) and then have lots of face time with the head shed. Bad thing is you may be in those jobs for about a year, while everyone one else is rotating about every 4-6 months gaining more expierence/knowledge. Some "jobs" will have nothing to do but upgrade. Other jobs actually have work to do and you still have to upgrade. The squadron, I THINK, is still trying to figure out what the newly created post CMO jobs are actually suppose to be doing.

From a new guy to other new guys... check in, be humble, be able to laugh at yourself, don't take it personal, study, and be prepared for lots of sims and duty.