Pilots forced to cut back on fuel consumption?

[vicariousrider]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/16/pilots.fuel/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Seems sensationalist in nature, but I thought it was an interesting read nonetheless.

 

[Single Seat]

Ya it is. All they've done is slow down, fly max range profiles, and taxi on one engine in stead of turning two. I've been doing a lot of traveling lately and just about every flight I've taken they don't start up the second engine until just prior to takeoff, and shut one down just after landing.

 

[TheBubba]

My las couple of flights, we've been reducing the amount fuel we burn in the air. We don't burn it, we just dump it. Almost 20K# in the past two days.

 

[nittany03]

I know some of the most useless things in aviation are altitude above you and gas in the truck, but who the heck plans for and insists on an extra hour of fuel as a matter of course? If practice is to fill up with a full bag, that's one thing. If I was going to be crossing the Pacific, that's one thing, but here, even on a divert, I doubt you'd need that much to hit a field, shoot an approach and land in an emergency.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Min fuel numbers can be misleading... Lots of variables... Weather and runways are obvious but when you are talking outside of military ops many other factors are in play... Airport congestion, Services available, How much Duty time is left before the crew times-out, Flight time left on the crew (8 in 24), Where does the company need you to divert to minimize impact on the operation and much more...

It's not like you call the Duty Officer and say "Hey, I couldn't get into Jax so I'm at Cecil, Mayport, etc.." I have seen KTLH, KMCO and even KTPA on the release as diverts for Jax here.. And we are 121 Supplimental so we require alternates.. I think in the next year we will be going 121 Flag which don't require alternates or so I am told... Saves carring extra gas which equals $$$$$...

 

[vicariousrider]

I kinda figured it was sensationalist in nature - kind of like an article I read not too long ago (posted elsewhere on the site) which said that touch-and-go maneuvers were a 'risky activity'.

Thanks for your insight. I think I've learned something

 

[BACONATOR]

Ya it is. All they've done is slow down, fly max range profiles, and taxi on one engine in stead of turning two. I've been doing a lot of traveling lately and just about every flight I've taken they don't start up the second engine until just prior to takeoff, and shut one down just after landing.

Ah, so that's why I'm hearing the sound of the PTU grinding away while on deck with the slats/flaps not moving.

Now as for this article, why the hell would you CARRY less fuel? This doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have any effect on your BURN of the fuel in flight. What kind of logic is that? To give pilots more "incentive" to burn less fuel?

 

[magnetfreezer]

Now as for this article, why the hell would you CARRY less fuel? This doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have any effect on your BURN of the fuel in flight. What kind of logic is that? To give pilots more "incentive" to burn less fuel?

Wouldn't more fuel=more weight=more lbs burned/hour to maintain the same airspeed?

 

[FrankTheTank]

why the hell would you CARRY less fuel? This doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have any effect on your BURN of the fuel in flight.

WRONG.... More fuel carried = more fuel burned...

Wouldn't more fuel=more weight=more lbs burned/hour to maintain the same airspeed?

WINNER

Couldn't copy from our website due to proprietary reasons but according to OUR beancounters--"The cost to carry extra fuel is almost 4% of the additional fuel boarded for each flight hour. An extra 5000 pounds of fuel at Take-off on a 2 hour flight burns 400 pounds, just to carry the additional fuel."

 

[BACONATOR]

I know it's been a year since I've been an engineer, so I overestimated the cost of carrying an additional 30 minutes of fuel. How much more fuel burn would result from carrying 30 minutes of extra fuel (45 min instead of 15)?

 

[FrankTheTank]

How much more fuel burn would result from carrying 30 minutes of extra fuel (45 min instead of 15)?

Depends on the airplane.. 2, 3, 4 engines... How effecient is the airframe.. Cruise Altitiude.. Mach cruise... etc..
To open of a question! Lots of variables....

 

[A4sForever]

Boom's fuel scorecard

All correct.

But this has been goin' on for decades for those of you still "airline unwashed" ... pilots want more gas and FLTOPS wants to give you the minimum, always backed up by the beancounter$ nodding in vapid agreement. :sleep_125

The nice thing about havin' 4 Stripes was -- it was either my way or the highway (literally in some cases, I guess) as I wasn't moving from the gate unless I had what I considered to be a safe & correct fuel load -- taking routes, forecast WX, expected traffic, airports, and experience into account.

I just had to be able to justify my numbers if they were in great variance from what OPS wanted ... nothing "new" there, either.

It also helped that > 80% of my flyin' was overseas -- as the locals didn't like to trifle w/ the Yankee Air Pirate Captain as a matter of practice. It would hurt too much to lose "face", so they tended to be more compliant w/ the CAPT's desires than you might expect.

 

[FrankTheTank]

The nice thing about havin' 4 Stripes was -- it was either my way or the highway (literally in some cases, I guess) as I wasn't moving from the gate unless I had what I considered to be a safe & correct fuel load -- taking routes, forecast WX, expected traffic, airports, and experience into account.

And that is worth it's price in Gold... And that is part of the problem with LCCs and at the regional level... [EXPERIENCE AND SOUND DECISION MAKING] Easy for a less experienced Captains to give in to pressure from Ops.. Just like when the CO/XO/OPS O was trying to get you to do something you were NOT comfortable with as a JO... Did you make the hard decision or take a chance and it worked this time??? I know I had a few times when the other guys would try to box me in a corner and I said 'NO'... Got called in the boss's office and told to stop bullying my NFOs.. "But Sir... What they wanted was not safe, smart, fill in the blank..." As I told my studs in Meridian... "What we do is cool but NONE of it is cool if you are dead..."

Sorry for the long ditribe on experience and what should be common sense..

 

[Huggy Bear]

An old branniff captain was telling me something about a certain amount of gas that a captain could get above the mins without any complaint from the bean counters. Do I have this right? And does it still exist at airlines?

 

[FrankTheTank]

An old branniff captain was telling me something about a certain amount of gas that a captain could get above the mins without any complaint from the bean counters. Do I have this right? And does it still exist at airlines?

No limit here... I have seen as high as 8000lbs but mostly it is between 3 and 5 grand.... Typically added not for WX but for contingencies like heading out of EWR or PHL during the AM... (the 2 worse places to launch out of at 8 AM!)

We just recently got into the fuel savings game... I have seen one-engine taxi once and after landing.... Used to show up to jet and crank-up the APU but now do it 15 minutes to pushback.. So with that being said I don't have as much experience with all this fuel savings game but it seems that the company is working to move in that direction... And as long as it doesn't compromise SAFETY than I am all for keeping this company thriving... But then again, I only have 9 hours and 46 minutes (2 landings) in the past 60 days so maybe I am not really helping them Life on reserve!