Question about applying for jobs

[alaurin]

If you're applying for officer candidate (not pro-rec'd yet) and also applying for a job with an aerospace corporation, do you tell the interviewer that you're applying for a career in the Navy?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

no, they have no business knowing, just as if you were applying for all civilian jobs, and if you were not looking at the USN and only applying for one civilian job at a time then I can tell you that you are doing it wrong.

 

[alaurin]

I put in about 60 or 70 applications with Boeing for various internships and received only one invitation to the next round of the application process. I didn't even bother continuing in the application process because the job was in the Midwest and I have to stay local this summer. I have a suspicion that because I don't have the words UCLA, Purdue, Harvard, Yale or MIT on my resume, my application goes straight into the round filing bin.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I put in about 60 or 70 applications with Boeing for various internships and received only one invitation to the next round of the application process. I didn't even bother continuing in the application process because the job was in the Midwest and I have to stay local this summer. I have a suspicion that because I don't have the words UCLA, Purdue, Harvard, Yale or MIT on my resume, my application goes straight into the round filing bin.

well, actually I know many that work there who have degrees from places like Montana Tech, Central Washington, Utah State, and Arizona State so the school isn't the issue.

 

[Spekkio]

I put in about 60 or 70 applications with Boeing for various internships and received only one invitation to the next round of the application process. I didn't even bother continuing in the application process because the job was in the Midwest and I have to stay local this summer. I have a suspicion that because I don't have the words UCLA, Purdue, Harvard, Yale or MIT on my resume, my application goes straight into the round filing bin.

That's not entiely true. Employers are smarter than you think and they can tell when a resume is a full page, fluffed up expression of the fact that someone has attended school for 16 years and held various part-time unskilled labor jobs in the process, even if the degree is from one of the aforementioned universities. If you want some comic relief, you can google worst job interviews and find out what some of these intelligent but inexperienced people say to prospective employers. Conversely, there was a viral email not too long ago of someone who applied to an internship with an email because he knew he was too inexperienced to actually have a resume, but offered his hard work and dedication to the company (he got the job). What is important is what your degree is in and how you utilized your time at college that displays organizational/leadership ability -- internships, volunteer work, etc, and that you display the qualities an employer is looking for when hiring someone fresh out of college -- someone who has the foundational knowledge in the field and who is smart, reliable, loyal, hard-working and willing to learn.

Also, if you want your employers to actually hear from your references, include the letters with the resume. They're often too lazy to call otherwise.

 

[alaurin]

I run into the occasional odd duck who does work at Boeing or other local aerospace mega-corporation and went to my university. But the thing is, it's only maybe 3-10 out of a class of maybe 700. Rather hard to get your foot in the door if HR does weed through the applications and only select the people with the big names on their resume. Even supposing you do know somebody, it's still rather hard to get in.

I just sent out an email asking if the people who interviewed me had come to a decision, so I'll keep you posted. I do think that they might have passed over me because I told them of my intent to join the military. As far as not telling them in the interview, I thought about omitting it, but I think pursing a career as a military aviator has been such an integral part of my life that I would have done a disservice to myself and had a hard time explaining why I switched from English to Engineering.

 

[Spekkio]

HR do have filters, but oftentimes it boils down to quantifiable measurements like min years of experience, regionally accredited university, and gpa... not the names. There might be a company or two who tell their HR people to only give them the names of applicants who attended one of a half dozen universities, but certainly not the majority as even mega corporations are subject to the laws of supply-and-demand. The prestige of the university can help you further up the chain, but it's not at the HR filter guy's discretion (and do you really think that the HR person sits there with a list of college rankings for each degree they are willing to entertain an application from, since the #1 college for degree X is not #1 for degree Y? That would be absurd). Experience can be a combination of actually working in the field and studying in the field. If your degree is a BA in basket weaving with no accompanying internships or jobs, an aerospace mega-corporation considers you to have 0 years of experience. If your degree is a BS in Electrical Engineering with a research project on aircraft electronics, then you have 4 years of experience (two extreme examples but you get my point). If that is below the cutoff into the trash you go; if not, you get passed up.

I would have done a disservice to myself and had a hard time explaining why I switched from English to Engineering.

You honestly can't do this without mentioning Naval aviation? Try googling the top paying bachelor degrees and tell me if you notice something in common.

 

[bert]

I'm at an aerospace company near you; we haven't finalized our intern plan for the summer yet, but if you want an honest opinion of your résumé pm me your email.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I run into the occasional odd duck who does work at Boeing or other local aerospace mega-corporation and went to my university. But the thing is, it's only maybe 3-10 out of a class of maybe 700. Rather hard to get your foot in the door if HR does weed through the applications and only select the people with the big names on their resume. Even supposing you do know somebody, it's still rather hard to get in.

I just sent out an email asking if the people who interviewed me had come to a decision, so I'll keep you posted. I do think that they might have passed over me because I told them of my intent to join the military. As far as not telling them in the interview, I thought about omitting it, but I think pursing a career as a military aviator has been such an integral part of my life that I would have done a disservice to myself and had a hard time explaining why I switched from English to Engineering.

I have some inside knowledge about Boeing, such I know people who work in HR AND Managers who do hiring I will let you know there are MANY who have engineering degrees that are applying and getting jobs as entry level electricians, mechanics, etc..... just to get their foot in the door, and THEN they apply for and get actual engineering jobs, I have also known one person that applied and 3 weeks after the closing date he started working there, he had a 2.9 GPA degree in ME from an average university.

FYI they are getting hundreds of resume's for every job, granted many apply for multiple jobs.

 

[alaurin]

HR do have filters, but oftentimes it boils down to quantifiable measurements like min years of experience, regionally accredited university, and gpa... not the names. There might be a company or two who tell their HR people to only give them the names of applicants who attended one of a half dozen universities, but certainly not the majority as even mega corporations are subject to the laws of supply-and-demand. The prestige of the university can help you further up the chain, but it's not at the HR filter guy's discretion (and do you really think that the HR person sits there with a list of college rankings for each degree they are willing to entertain an application from, since the #1 college for degree X is not #1 for degree Y? That would be absurd). Experience can be a combination of actually working in the field and studying in the field. If your degree is a BA in basket weaving with no accompanying internships or jobs, an aerospace mega-corporation considers you to have 0 years of experience. If your degree is a BS in Electrical Engineering with a research project on aircraft electronics, then you have 4 years of experience (two extreme examples but you get my point). If that is below the cutoff into the trash you go; if not, you get passed up.
You honestly can't do this without mentioning Naval aviation? Try googling the top paying bachelor degrees and tell me if you notice something in common.

Part of it's just that question that they usually ask- "Where do you see yourself in 5-10 years?" I haven't really been able to reconcile the fact that most engineering jobs require you to sit at a desk in a windowless office 8-12 hours a day, squinting at a computer screen, either doing CAD or simulations or looking at charts. That's really one of the big things that detracts from engineering in my opinion. I understand that the majority of the stuff we do is very specialized and requires tools such as computers and million dollar software. But quite frankly, I'd prefer not to be squinting at that screen all day everyday, I'd like to go design something and build it, then watch it either work beautifully or burn up, then write a 45 pages report on what I learned and would have done differently next time. I think I'd prefer that type engineering.

As far as applying, I've been applying for those entry-level internships where they usually just state "must have 3.0 GPA or higher, junior or higher status." The most specialized I went was "must know Solidworks or CAD, must know Microsoft Excel." But I think it's mostly the numbers game that puts me at a disadvantage.

 

[Spekkio]

Part of it's just that question that they usually ask- "Where do you see yourself in 5-10 years?"

You just told me what you wanted in 5-10 years should you pursue a career in engineering, so why is this difficult to articulate to employers? If a mega-corporation won't get you there, then you need to consider other options that will. Doing a flying tour with the Navy won't catapult you to the head of a design team, either, and may set you back a bit because you will now have worked out of engineering for about 10 years.

FWIW, every career has a component where you do work that some would consider boring or beneath their capabilities, especially when you start out, but you probably have little to nothing on your resume to prove that you are worthy of more than that. I had a PCO in my power school class who flew lead for the Blue Angels. He started out that tour making coffee for them. My Nav told a Sailor checking in once "I'm not gonna lie, you are going to be asked to do a lot of menial tasks at first. But doing those tasks well is going to enable you to get more responsibility. You don't want to be known as the guy who can't even clean a head the right way." If you are capable of more, it will become blatantly obvious to your supervisors and you will advance faster than your peers.

 

[BusyBee604]

If you're applying for officer candidate (not pro-rec'd yet) and also applying for a job with an aerospace corporation, do you tell the interviewer that you're applying for a career in the Navy?

To answer OP's basic question, your other alternative job applications are not the business of the potential employer. They have no need to know & you are not obligated to provide that information. Such voluntary disclosure has the potential of making you less competitive for employment than other equally qualified applicants. IMO, withholding your simultaneous application for a Naval career, is in your best interest, and is in no way unethical... as opposed to one withholding arrest/conviction records, drug use history, physical/mental health issues, etc.
BzB

 

[BusyBee604]

FWIW, every career has a component where you do work that some would consider boring or beneath their capabilities, especially when you start out, but you probably have little to nothing on your resume to prove that you are worthy of more than that. I had a PCO in my power school class who flew lead for the Blue Angels. He started out that tour making coffee for them. My Nav told a Sailor checking in once "I'm not gonna lie, you are going to be asked to do a lot of menial tasks at first. But doing those tasks well is going to enable you to get more responsibility. You don't want to be known as the guy who can't even clean a head the right way." If you are capable of more, it will become blatantly obvious to your supervisors and you will advance faster than your peers.

This advice is GOLDEN! I started my Naval career scrubbing toilet bowls, urinals and scouring greasy pots and mess trays. Did the best I could at each assignment. Didn't realize it at the time, but my supervisors did notice and good things followed... albeit slowly. I ended my Naval career some 22 years later, having flown multi-million dollar jets... on and off carriers day/night, for a good part of it. If I were to do it over, there is very little I would change!
BzB

 

[alaurin]

Thanks for the advice, gentlemen.

I found out today I was removed from consideration for the internship because they wanted somebody who hadn't already worked on a senior design project. I reminded them that I will be done with my senior design project in May and the HR seemed interested and said the managers all had good things to say about me. I guess that's one door shut.