Question about recruiters.

[nativeofsandieg]

This is more of an inquiry than a technical question.

It seems as though every recruiter I talk too (which has been quite a bit over the past year) they attempt to push me into Surface Warfare. As a matter of fact every recruiter has attempted to make it seem impossible for someone without an aeronautical degree and 3.7 or above GPA to be accepted into flight school.

My father was a RIO back before Tomcats were faded out. And he is still in the Navy. The fact that he was CO, lent me the ability to talk with numerous pilots and RIOs, who have had numerous amounts of varying degrees and had a GPA well below 3.7. I am just curious if anyone else has run into this situation.

 

[Seafort]

My OR said the opposite, at the time we started my package, he said that going NFO was more likely. Needs of the navy change.

At the moment, current estimates for FY2010 put SWO as pulling the most new Ensigns. This isn't an increase in overall commissioning numbers, but is more like a conservation of O-1 principle, and thus those Ensigns will have to come from somewhere else- aviation probably being at least part of that somewhere else.

In the end, you will find aviators and flight officers here who are at both the top and the bottom of each scale (ASTB, GPA, extracurriculars, etc) and with a myriad of majors. If you really want it, your package will show it. Your background will certainly help, and will probably get you some good endorsements/letters of recommendation.

I want SWO so the current numbers are helpful to me, and only my weakest LOR is in the aviation field (I say weakest, but I mean that she is an O-3 pilot, and therefore junior, the other two LORs are from senior SWOs). If you want the NFO spot, put only NFO. Work on package. APPLY. Repeat as many times as it takes to get professional recommended. That's all there is to it.

 

[atrickpay]

Take the ASTB. Their attitude will likely change according to how you score on that so don't take it lightly.

 

[RedFive]

I don't know what NRD you're going through, but I had no problems with my guys. I mean, getting in touch with them was troublesome because they were so busy all the time, but that's understandable.

Anyways, ultimately you're the one who fills out the application and you're the one who gets to put down what you want to apply for. If you goto MEPS and you get NPQ'd out of something, obviously they're not going to let you put that down, but otherwise it's fair game.

Just do well on the ASTB and make sure you study and don't blow it off. Some people will tell you not to study or that it's easy. Don't listen to them, it's your future, not theirs. I studied and I maxed it out...so can you.

 

[Moc1Sig]

Take the ASTB. Their attitude will likely change according to how you score on that so don't take it lightly.

do this.

I have seen nearly any major get accepted with all sorts of GPA's. I have also applied with decent ASTB, GPA, extra. and "aviation major" and been denied. accepted with improved everything, diff business major and high ASTB. ASTB best thing you can focus on now, and college if your still there.

 

[SynixMan]

+1 on the ASTB. Take it seriously and do well. My recruiter was nice, but pretty distant until I took the ASTB. Once he saw my scores, he knew I was a serious applicant. With the job market in the tank, these guys are literally swamped with applicants who think the Navy will take almost anyone with a pulse and college degree.

Show them your serious, be firm but polite in your choice of not putting SWO, and you should be fine. Don't let them tell you that you need to put 3 choices. It's your career, apply for what you want to do.

 

[Renegade One]

Sad fact of life: "Recruiters (Note: you will replace this in later years with "Detailers") are as interested in your career as you are in theirs."

They're trying to fill their quotas...agree with everything said above about doing well on the ASTB and getting what you want. I hear API is looking for a few good "Lead Ensigns" to head their way...

 

[Uncle Fester]

...Needs of the navy change...At the moment, current estimates for FY2010 put SWO as pulling the most new Ensigns. This isn't an increase in overall commissioning numbers, but is more like a conservation of O-1 principle, and thus those Ensigns will have to come from somewhere else- aviation probably being at least part of that somewhere else.

Wrong. If someone told you that, they were trying to sell you on SWOness as a 'resistance is futile' tactic. Needs of the Navy are paramount, but there's no such thing as 'conservation of ensigns' in the sense that more SWO billets does not mean less aviation billets.

Aviation figures out their needed numbers in the Fleet based on current squadron manning, projected community growth or shrinkage, retention numbers in each YG, normal attrition rates from the Program, etc, and works backwards from there. I don't know how the Shoe Leadership plans their numbers, but I imagine it's similar.

How many ensigns the rest of the Navy needs does not factor into it. If one community increases their anticipated needs, then overall accession numbers go up. If they go down, accession goes down. If there isn't enough money to increase accession, then everyone takes the hit. There are other ways to adjust the numbers downrange (how I got my SWO-to-FO transition - they just happened to be undermanned in NFOs in my YG when I applied). A 'priority fill' community doesn't mean the other communities get less. It's not a zero-sum game.

They're trying to fill their quotas...agree with everything said above about doing well on the ASTB and getting what you want. I hear API is looking for a few good "Lead Ensigns" to head their way...

Recruiters have quotas to fill, and while they won't lie, they will obfuscate, prevaricate, and mislead by omission or hyperbole. You're doing the right thing by talking to guys 'in the Fleet'. Maybe you can aspire to be Lead Ensign someday! :icon_tong

 

[sickboy]

Take the ASTB. Their attitude will likely change according to how you score on that so don't take it lightly.

My LT told us that ASTB's don't matter anymore. I'm guessing that was bad gouge?

 

[Uncle Fester]

My LT told us that ASTB's don't matter anymore. I'm guessing that was bad gouge?

Tell me you're kidding.

 

[Seafort]

Wrong. If someone told you that, they were trying to sell you on SWOness as a 'resistance is futile' tactic. Needs of the Navy are paramount, but there's no such thing as 'conservation of ensigns' in the sense that more SWO billets does not mean less aviation billet... A 'priority fill' community doesn't mean the other communities get less. It's not a zero-sum game.

This was not how it was explained to me at all. And it was explained to me by both SWOs and BUPERs 41 officers after I asked a lot of questions. I don't need to be sold on SWO as resistance is futile. I want to be a SWO. No one has to make me. It was definitely said, almost verbatim, that "it's a bad time to want to be an aviator." So who do I believe?

 

[C420sailor]

It was definitely said, almost verbatim, that "it's a bad time to want to be an aviator."

It's NEVER a bad time to want to be an aviator

 

[picklesuit]

Animal Science...3.02...5/5/5 58...Good enuff! Your recruiter is full of shit. Take the test, drop the package, it is the boards decision, not his.

 

[Uncle Fester]

This was not how it was explained to me at all. And it was explained to me by both SWOs and BUPERs 41 officers after I asked a lot of questions. I don't need to be sold on SWO as resistance is futile. I want to be a SWO. No one has to make me. It was definitely said, almost verbatim, that "it's a bad time to want to be an aviator." So who do I believe?

Since you've decided what community you want to belong to, it really doesn't matter who you believe.

Aviation initial accession may be down right now (or may not, I don't know the current numbers), but if it is, it's not because the Shoes have declared dibs on a bigger share of next year's Ensign harvest. I do know that nobody from the various commissioning sources seems to be having much trouble getting an Air billet.

Navy Air has gone through some huge gyrations over the last 15-20 years trying to get accession numbers right. For illumination, look up the "T-Notch" of the 93-94 YG's. The program was subject to huge fits and starts, guys with no issues being pooled for over a year waiting for Advanced, all kinds of craziness. The higher math they use to figure out the initial accessions they need would make a trip to Saturn look simple, and they've actually ironed out most of the major hiccups. To fuck all that up by letting another community dictate the numbers based on their projected needs? Ain't gonna happen.

The SWO's get plenty of extra bodies from Aviation attrition, anyway.

 

[nativeofsandieg]

Thanks for the help guys. Its encouraging to get some positive feedback.

I am studying for the ASTB, I bought numerous study books and am looking at the gouge. Got my pop's ol' physics book as well for some brush up. Its hard to re-learn all of this stuff, considering I have a History degree, Math was not necessarily a primary for graduation.

Always wanted to be a NFO, since my old man was a RIO. I always thought that was cool. Thanks for the help!