Reapplying for Pilot Commission

[shaines3]

Being given the oppurtunity to become a navy pilot has been a path I have been pursuing for some time. I rececently submitted my application with great references including a navy seal, a navy admiral, and two other work related references. My ASTB scores in the three sections were 6-6-6.

This past month I was turned down by the selection board which is frustrating because my recruiter thought I would be a "shoe-in" based on my application.

I wish to re-apply however my recruiter says I can only do this with an improvement to my application. Since my ASTB scores are pretty good I am hesitant to retake the ASTB test as they only take your most recent scores. Any thoughts on what my next step should be? I have considered trying to get a few flight hours to show an "improvement" but since I graduate in two weeks I am looking to get to OCS soon.

 

[twobecrazy]

Being given the oppurtunity to become a navy pilot has been a path I have been pursuing for some time. I rececently submitted my application with great references including a navy seal, a navy admiral, and two other work related references. My ASTB scores in the three sections were 6-6-6.

This past month I was turned down by the selection board which is frustrating because my recruiter thought I would be a "shoe-in" based on my application.

I wish to re-apply however my recruiter says I can only do this with an improvement to my application. Since my ASTB scores are pretty good I am hesitant to retake the ASTB test as they only take your most recent scores. Any thoughts on what my next step should be? I have considered trying to get a few flight hours to show an "improvement" but since I graduate in two weeks I am looking to get to OCS soon.

Grades for this semester should be coming out around the middle of the month so this semester’s grades will be an improvement in the package and would allow for an immediate resubmit. I would suggest grad school over flight time. LOR's are improvements. You could do an interview as that is an improvement as well. As you pointed out you could retake the ASTB. Volunteer work would help as well.

 

[BigJeffray]

Being given the oppurtunity to become a navy pilot has been a path I have been pursuing for some time. I rececently submitted my application with great references including a navy seal, a navy admiral, and two other work related references. My ASTB scores in the three sections were 6-6-6.

This past month I was turned down by the selection board which is frustrating because my recruiter thought I would be a "shoe-in" based on my application.

I wish to re-apply however my recruiter says I can only do this with an improvement to my application. Since my ASTB scores are pretty good I am hesitant to retake the ASTB test as they only take your most recent scores. Any thoughts on what my next step should be? I have considered trying to get a few flight hours to show an "improvement" but since I graduate in two weeks I am looking to get to OCS soon.

You can reapply in six months regardless of changes to your application. You need "significant improvement" (or whatever phrase they use) in order to reapply again for the same program before six months. If you wish to do that, I recommend double checking your motivational statement to start, then maybe doing some volunteering over the summer. There are plenty of opportunities and a lot of them can be very rewarding and a lot of fun, like coaching team sports for example. The flight hours could be a possibility, but I don't know how much that would help you unless you wanted to get a PPL (which still might not help you). No one knows what the board looks for for sure, but if you resubmit with 10-20 hours, I don't see that as being too big of an eye catcher. Not to mention it's extremely expensive. Sorry to hear about your non-select, but keep your head down and don't give up. Also, what was your score on the OAR section of the astb?

 

[shaines3]

I can easily get more letters of recommendations, however my recruiter said the only form of "improvement" are improved GPA or higher astb scores. Does this sound correct because I do not have the most confidence in his answer. As far as service hours, do they really place that much emphasis on service and if so you think it is even more than working to get a private pilots license. I have researched some private flight schools that say I could get it in as little as a month if I treated it like a full time job.

BigJeffray, my OAR score was a 56. My recruiter said that these scores were good but do you think he was just trying to put some wind in my sails or are they actually decent?

 

[BigJeffray]

As far as service hours, do they really place that much emphasis on service and if so you think it is even more than working to get a private pilots license. I have researched some private flight schools that say I could get it in as little as a month if I treated it like a full time job.

BigJeffray, my OAR score was a 56. My recruiter said that these scores were good but do you think he was just trying to put some wind in my sails or are they actually decent?

I have no idea what they place more emphasis on, but the general concensus is that the boards look at the "Whole person concept," meaning you can make up for poor scores, gpa, lors, etc. if you are good in other areas. Service seems like one of those areas that can really round out a package because it shows that you are committed to helping and serving others and want to be a part of some sort of greater good, which is in line with what being an Officer is about. This is at least how I look at it.

Getting a PPL in a month, while possible, is not probable, but it can be done in a summer, be prepared to spend between $4-$7K, though. This would also likely help you with the aviation sections of the ASTB (being an faa pilot helped me, but I by no means did my flight training for the Navy, but I digress). I love aviation and would not discourage anyone from becoming a pilot, but I personally don't recommend it soley for the purpose of applying, unless money is completely not an issue. As far as your ASTB, your recruiter is not BSing you, they are above average, but there is room for improvement. Personally, I wouldn't retake it unless you were very confident in improving though because as you already know, they take the most recent, not the highest. Again, let me reiterate that I am not a pro in this process, I was only pro-rec'd in March, but most of what I'm saying is based on my experiences on this board, with my recruiter, and with my application process.

 

[ajalali]

Whats your major? That could have a lot to do with how your GPA stacks up against the rest of the pack.

If you look at the march board stats in the march board thread, you'll see the average board scores. Don't get me wrong with what I'm about to say -- 6s are pretty good! But 7s are better. and so are 8s. and so are 9s. If I were you, I'd buckle down, study for the ASTB again and retake it. You should get to the point where you know the answer before you read your choices. They cant say no to 9s.

In the words of a recent fortune cookie.. "Stop trying to do. Just do it"

best of luck, catch you on the flip side

 

[twobecrazy]

They cant say no to 9s.

I disagree with this statement. I have seen several times when they say no to 9's and 8's already and I have only observed 3 boards results.

 

[ajalali]

it was more of a general statement, as in, 9's are very good, and they are the "best you can do."

I mean, you're right. They can say no to whoever they want based on the entire application, but all I meant was 9's are definitely head turners and standouts, you know? Sorry for the miscommunication, I haven't been very good with my words lately.

best,
andy

 

[m26]

If you look at the march board stats in the march board thread, you'll see the average board scores. Don't get me wrong with what I'm about to say -- 6s are pretty good! But 7s are better. and so are 8s. and so are 9s. If I were you, I'd buckle down, study for the ASTB again and retake it. You should get to the point where you know the answer before you read your choices. They cant say no to 9s.

This.

6's are fine, and if it's the best you can do it's going to be what you have to build around. But straight 7's looked to me like the scores an average applicant would need to be competitive for DA SNA based on the last boards. If you could manage that you could reapply right away and be much more likely to get picked up when you do.

 

[shaines3]

Whats your major? That could have a lot to do with how your GPA stacks up against the rest of the pack.

If you look at the march board stats in the march board thread, you'll see the average board scores. Don't get me wrong with what I'm about to say -- 6s are pretty good! But 7s are better. and so are 8s. and so are 9s. If I were you, I'd buckle down, study for the ASTB again and retake it. You should get to the point where you know the answer before you read your choices. They cant say no to 9s.

In the words of a recent fortune cookie.. "Stop trying to do. Just do it"

best of luck, catch you on the flip side

My major is Finance with a 3.23 GPA. I know that may not be ideal but it is still math which is desired. I hear what everyone is saying about working for 7s, 8s, or 9s its just still frustrating when I have a friend who got in with 5s for NFO and they turned me down ever for that when I had 6s. Both had similar applications except for that. (He's already gone through OCS a ouple months ago). Retaking is a possiblity but my recruiter took nine months to get my stuff turned in even though I the paperwork done in two so I've forgotten a lot of stuff that I studied hard for already. I know "buckle down" but you get my point. Thanks guys for the help.

 

[EM1]

Just an observation based on what I've seen
1) Officer selection has gotten more intense even over the last year to the service as the recession has spiked applications. What your buddy got in with in a board earlier may not cut it now.
2) They're at the point of commissioning NROTC grads designated flight to the IRR because pilot is so backed up, people the Navy has spent money on training.
3) You may know your friends ASTB scores, but there is so much more to selection. It's a whole person concept, I've seen many people who I thought were qualified denied for one reason or another and others who I thought didn't have a chance get selected. Only known formula for almost garunteed selection would be 9/9/9, 4.0 GPA in Electrical engineering, vollunteer firefighter who is also a big brother for a combined total fo 80 hours of community service per week, a stellar statement and LORs from those on high.
So, the only thing you can do is pick yourself up, not worry about why you weren't selected, and move on to what you can do to improve yourself to get selected. Not the same program, but I applied many times to STA-21 NFO before selection (an enlisted commissioning program. Only 1 board held per year). Every time I wasnt selected, I worked to make myself and my package look better for the following year.

 

[C420sailor]

Don't waste your time getting a PPL unless you want one for personal reasons. Study hard and crush that ASTB. That will yield the greatest return on investment.

 

[ajalali]

Retaking is a possiblity but my recruiter took nine months to get my stuff turned in even though I the paperwork done in two so I've forgotten a lot of stuff that I studied hard for already. I know "buckle down" but you get my point. Thanks guys for the help.

holy mother, 9 months? what the flip was he doing? I mean, I know this is easier said than done, but maybe try and find a different recruiter. You say you're done with school in a couple weeks right? If your school is in a different city/town than your hometown, and you plan on going home for a little bit after school, maybe it would be better to just cut ties with your current recruiter and move on to another. 9 months is absurd. Once my stuff was all together in one place (which was my responsibility), it only took one day or so for my recruiter to get things down to the Boards. I signed the papers and we were off, so i'm not sure whats going on here. That sucks though, I feel for you.

Also, im not sure what parts of the exam you're having trouble with. If youre a finance major, math shouldn't be too bad. If you're having troubles with the physics, then all the gouge linked in the ASTB section is pretty fly and WILL help you. And finally.. if you're having difficulty with the aviation section, then let me direct your attention to the Gleim PPL book. This book will teach you everything you need to know for the FAA Private written...which is similar to the aviation section of the ASTB. If you go through this book a few times and answer all the questions, you'll get pretty acquainted with the pilot side of aviation, and most likely do well on the aeronautical questions. Trust me, this book got me through my private written.

http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/13337

As for your friend getting 5s into NFO, its all about the needs of the Navy, the applicant pool, and your whole application. Also, don't underestimate the motivational statement. What im bout to say may or may not be true, but I think 300 words of "why i want to be a naval officer" can either be pretty boring or pretty unique. Make it unique.

 

[AlexSmart]

From my limited experience with my OR, an outstanding ASTB score trumps a relatively small amount of flight time (now if you have hundreds of hours and/or multiple ratings then I'm sure that will count for a lot). During conversations with my OR, discussing my few hours of cessna time barely even raised an eyebrow but when I threw down a 8/9/9 he was legitimately impressed. This is not to say straight 6's isn't a good score, but you can put yourself towards the top of the applicant pool without having to spend any money.

Obviously, trying to gouge what will impress the boards is kind of like reading tea leaves. But for what its worth, I remember reading on threads around here that IP's and some in the aviation community don't give much consideration for your previous flight hours because they consider flying for the military an entirely new ballgame... just my two cents.

I also second what ajalali just said. Try and spill your guts on your motivational statement. On my first draft, my OR commented that it was good but just kind of read like a resume. So I took a few weeks to really ask myself why I'm jumping through all these hoops to get selected. I rewrote certain sentences over and over until they reflected my feelings as accurately as possible. I came back with these thoughts and my second draft seemed to resonate much better with my recruiter.

 

[ajalali]

From my limited experience with my OR, an outstanding ASTB score trumps a relatively small amount of flight time (now if you have hundreds of hours and/or multiple ratings then I'm sure that will count for a lot). During conversations with my OR, discussing my few hours of cessna time barely even raised an eyebrow but when I threw down a 8/9/9 he was legitimately impressed. This is not to say straight 6's isn't a good score, but you can put yourself towards the top of the applicant pool without having to spend any money.

totes mcgotes. Also, as for the whole pilot/non-pilot thing, I think one of the biggest issues is that the Navy wants to train you THEIR way. I can definitely see guys with 300+ hours or turbine time getting shunned because the Board thinks they might have developed bad habits, etc. On top of that, consider the fact that after primary, the field is completely leveled anyways. Yeah, some dude with flight time might have the edge early on in primary, but jets/twins/helicopters are a completely new story.

But shoot, when it all comes down to it and you get in (because of the all-star ASTB scores you are gonna get and your dope motivational statement that you are gonna rewrite), you're gonna go to primary and realize that flying a cessna or piper single with some joe-schmo 24 year old CFI outta Embry-Riddle is absolutely nothing compared to the LT or LCDR or CDR that's gonna be chewing you out from the backseat of your T-34 or T-6.

Long story short, one step at a time brother, go get it.

Oh, and don't drop your map: