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S-3 Crashes near NAS Jax
- Thread starter virtu050
- Start date
Looks like two didn't make it ...
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/092105/met_plane.shtml
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/092105/met_plane.shtml
Two parachutes found two miles from the crash site, two bodies in the wreckage, no word yet on survivors. Doesn't make much sense at first blush. Vast majority of the time, in a situation like the one reported, short approach, the crew ejects, and survives. Probably just typical first reporting from a mishap scene, incomplete if not incompetent. It will be ineresting to see how the story develops. I'm still hoping for some survivors.
For anyone with any knowledge on the S-3...when they fly with only a pilot and a co-pilot, are the rear ejection seats disengaged, or do they fire off as well? This was my first thought when I heard two bodies and two chutes found nearby.
I actually had to go back and check my old NATOPS (gimme a break, it has been 15 years since my last flight). With the headknocker down (these are McDonnel Douglas ESCAPAC seats) the seat is safe from actuation by the respective seat ejection handles only. I had forgotten that. So, when in the crew eject mode if either the pilot or copilot/cotac eject, all four seats go, occupied or not. Ballast is not required as long as both back seats are unoccupied. An anthroprometric dummy was used for ballast when one of the rear seats was unoccupied. This ensured the unoccupied seat did not accelerated faster then the occupied seat and fry that occupant with the rocket motor. Not sure what kind of chute would have appeared from an unoccupied seat. I would expect just a billowing sheet. Still, it would be odd if only the front seats were occupied and the rear seats went but the front remained with the aircraft. Can't imagine ejecting so late that the front seats didn't even get out. We are talking fractions of a second bewteeen front and back sequences. Like I said, the real story will be interesting. It already is tragic.
There is a command eject on the S-3. The pilots seat is always set to command eject, the cotac can be set to either command or single eject. The seats in the back are only single eject (unless someone up front from pulls the handle). That was the training I recieved before my flight in the S-3.
All or none makes more sense the way I see it. I've heard that the prowler does a 1 at a time staggered, but still all or none. What else do you do if your pilot goes unconcious and everyone else needs to punch out? Leave the poor bastard there? A toggle switch might be nice, but realistically its just one more thing that can go wrong (thought it was set the other way, etc) in an already bad situation.
The ESCAPAC is a good seat --- it saved my butt once. The major malfunctions have been with the seat/canopy interlocks --- don't know whether or not this is a design weakness in the S-3. It was problematical in the A-4. I can't remember the specifics exactly and have no NATOPS for reference, but would not an unoccupied seat have only a stabilizing drogue at best ??? I need to see a book ..... sorry.wink said:
The major problem with most failed ejections is making the decision to get out too late ...... that's what kills you. we were always told to make that decision (i.e., What are your parameters?? What is you bottom line? ) before you ever man up regardless of type of aircraft ....
Mefesto said:
I hope you are are talking about another aircraft. As I stated above, command eject in the Hoover sends all seats occupied or not. In the War Hoover the pilot does not always have his lever in command eject irrespective of the copilot handle. In normal fleet ops both handles are in command eject, or both in select eject. The command eject feature only works for the front seats. Even in command eject the back seats can pull the loud handle and only that respective seat goes. In other words, the back seats can never command and entire crew ejection sequence. That also means that if a guy in back pulls the handle he fries his buddy because there is no coordinated ejection sequence between the back seats unless commanded by the front seat guys in crew/command eject. In a command ejection the back two seats go togather and a slit second later the two front seats go up the rails side by side. The Douglas ESACAPAC is a very reliable seat. I can't think of a failure in the S-3, or any other aircraft that comes to mind.
edit: A-4s speaks to the ESCAPACs value. BTW, the seat goes through the canopy in the Hoover. No design point failure there.